first time lapping rings

david g ranes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
597
I understand it is an argument to lap and not lap. I understand precision machined rings shouldn't need it but if it were a one piece ring like the nightforce direct mount then i would see no need to lap. I plan on doing it for this rifle as it is my most expensive to date. If the lapping goes bad and wont hold the scope then i will take off the rings and get a set of Spuhr mount and 1913 base and bed the base. But for lapping do you do just the bottom ring or put the top of it on and lap both top and bottom?
Just the bottom the top is thinner and more flexible. David
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
1,157
Location
Tennessee
So you pro ring lappers, let me ask you a question:

Did you have sub moa rifles before you started lapping them? Did you ever have a rifle shoot poorly, and then lapping the rings fixed it? (I know I'm inviting a dishonest person an open doorway to lie, but hopefully everyone here is pretty honest).

Have you ever taken a .75 moa rifle, taken it off the rings and lapped them, and found an improvement?


If none of those things happened, there is no evidence for this process. I'd bet that 99% of Uber accurate rifles out there have never seen a lapping bar.
 

xFREDRICKx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
178
Location
Missouri
i have rifles that shoot great, never lapped at all. However i have had ring marks on my scopes. hasn't bothered me at all, and that is with using the correct torque specs with my fat wrench. My main concern is not just accuracy as i am sure it will be accurate, i just want to protect to scope tube on my most expensive set up to date. And it if holds better then that is a plus.
 

misterc01

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
679
Location
Florida Panhandle
You should do some reading to see what pains a company like Talley goes through to get an even microscopic protective powder coat layer into your rings. They use multiple layers with different purposes. It is a very precise process, and then some of you are out there grinding it off with a sandpaper log, because it will be more precise than their $5million cnc machine and $million dollar computer powder coat bake machine
And when Iap the rings, I usually see they are not consistent across the surface with high/low spots. IMHO that indicates otme there is not a cosistent grp on the scope. body.
 

Alibiiv

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
1,508
Location
Rhode Island
It will void the warranty on most good quality Rings if you lap them. Find a video on bedding them and how to properly level a scope using a flashlight and plumb bob instead.

I lap my Ruger rings because the witness mark on those rings shows they "do" need lapping. I also use "EXD Engineering Vertical Reticle Instrument", a vertical line that I have drawn on my garage door 40 feet from my bench and....a flashlight to align my scopes. I am not sure if this tool is as good as a plumb bob, however it seems to work for me. This tool does align that centerline of the scope to the centerline of the bore.

 

david g ranes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
597
Lapping or bedding takes stress off of the scope tube it self a lot of issues with erectors in side of scopes can be alleviated if you do have rings that are not true I do agree this all came about years ago when machining was done by hand and probably not as necessary today. David
 

misterc01

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
679
Location
Florida Panhandle
So you pro ring lappers, let me ask you a question:

Did you have sub moa rifles before you started lapping them? Did you ever have a rifle shoot poorly, and then lapping the rings fixed it? (I know I'm inviting a dishonest person an open doorway to lie, but hopefully everyone here is pretty honest).

Have you ever taken a .75 moa rifle, taken it off the rings and lapped them, and found an improvement?


If none of those things happened, there is no evidence for this process. I'd bet that 99% of Uber accurate rifles out there have never seen a lappnteresting question - have you tried it?
invites the question - Have you tried it? what were your results?
 

misterc01

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
679
Location
Florida Panhandle
IMHO, and to reply to the way back original question: whatever any shooter wants to do to increase their accuracy is their deicision on how far to go in that pursuit. Lap or not, it is the shooter's choice. I consider lapping just another tool in my "toolbox" (along with probably too many) other things in my accuracy toolbox and use it when I thinnk it applies. So lapping is an individual choice, but just aware of the process.
 

Hecouldgoalltheway

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
1,157
Location
Tennessee
invites the question - Have you tried it? what were your results?
As I've stated several times, I have a safe full of half moa rifles and I've never lapped a set of rings in my life. You cannot prove that you don't need something. The burden of proof would be in the questions I asked above. The invention of lapping bars came about to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Maybe it did many years ago, but not anymore. I buy quality components, and my rifles shoot, they always shoot.
 

patrickjr

Active Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
27
Location
Tucson, AZ
+1 on buying quality rings instead of lapping
My father and I never lapped our lower end scopes. Then I bought my first higher end scope, so took it to a custom rifle builder for his advise on a base, rings, lapping, etc. He encouraged me to buy high quality rings and lapping won't be necessary. Bought XHCG Recon rings, I couldn't be happier.
 

ntsqd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,171
Location
Upper SoKA
Based on what I have seen in the couple sets of rings that I have lapped I will say that the problem does exist. Recall that scientifically one and only one exception breaks the rule. Just because a rifle shoots well doesn't mean that it doesn't have this problem, it just means that it if it does have this problem that it does not suffer for it. Just as a rifle that shoots poorly is not an indication of the issue being present, a rifle shoots well is not an indication that the issue isn't present. However, in a poorly shooting rifle it may be the cause or one of them.

Buying quality rings is not a sure-fire method to avoid the rings needing some form of size, shape, and alignment correction, it's just a better bet that they won't. And has multiple threads in the past on this topic have stated, the most perfect rings in the world still may not align right if the base is not also perfect on the action.

If you don't want to lap your rings then I strongly suggest that you do not do it. However, you're never going to convince me that I don't need to do it, no matter what rings I buy. They will all get lapped, at least enough to check their alignment. Depending on those results they may get further lapped, they may get bedded, and they may get nothing. But they will be checked.
 

vancewalker007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
648
Before cutting any metal off your rings, mount up the rings and use a pair of scope alignment bars and check the front to rear alignment. You may not need to lap anything. If you are using a Picatinny Rail bedding it will take you farther to truth than lapping. Bedded a rail is really easy but you need to do all the prep work to make it go smoothly. Its very similar to paint prepping. If your using the Talley single piece ring/base setup having them pinned like Gunwerks does is a good idea and more effective than lapping but it involves a gunsmith. If you do end up lapping, less is more, use the alignment bars to check alignment often during the process. If I was lapping I'd only lap the bottoms.
 
Top