Fine tuning loads lee factory crimp die

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by JDD, May 23, 2019.


Help Support Long Range Hunting by donating:


  1. cohunt

    cohunt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    870
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    all I'm saying is I have personally tried it-- some times it helps, some times it hurts but I can not make a definitive blanket statement and say it always does or never does because I have seen both results --I never gave a definitive answer one away or the other

    the op asked if we had tried it and did it help or not--I'm not sure you answered his question, just made a generalized unsupported statement
     
  2. JDD

    JDD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Neck tension is critical to accurate ammo as is bullet run out. I have shot tight necks with soft seated projectiles. I turned necks and performed extreme case prep. To get tight groups out to 500 meters on steel rams. At those distance es and sd are not as critical to good performance as it is at 1000 and beyond. If a variance in neck tension by a light crimp brings those #’s down. It could be a asset just as annealing at the proper time is. I am interested in hearing what your experience is if you tested a collet induced crimp
     
  3. ar10ar15man

    ar10ar15man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    you would be much better off by telling us :
    what the guns are
    what chambering
    where you are in load development
    every step in your current loading process
    what the components are
    and specifically what you expect
     
  4. JDD

    JDD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    280 ackley 180 gr eld 30 Bartlien Devient action load rl 26 3026fps I left the lab radar on so batteries are dead. as I remenber es was running maybe 30 I have 50 rounds through barrel it is still gaining a little speed. the attached photo is 3 shots at 1120. Its only a 3 shot group but shows a lot of promise (its all I had left after set up}. It is a 1/2 moa rifle or better, bug hole groups at 100 are easy.

    6.5.280 ackley 147 eld rl 26 at 3060 have run some at 3150. 29" bartlien on the new american rifle co action. I noticed that the case necks on some fired cases are a little snug, the bullets don t just drop in after firing. Best described as a almost tight neck with some of the cases. I was starting to get pressure at 57.5 grs and should be able to run closer to 60. I am thinking I have neck thickness issue or case length issues. I be looking at things closer this weekend. Second photo was shot at 1000 yards 147eldm at 3150. I was fire forming at little past 1/2 way I came up .2 mills. es on that load was 25 to 30. at a 100 its shooting 3/4 to 1 moa I definitely don t have a load dialed in.


    I am hoping to bring the es down and tighten up groups at 100 . New nosler 280 improved brass. loaded with redding competition neck sizer and seaters. bullets seated into the lands for forming purpose. I adjust to just kissing the lands now that I have fire formed cases. Out os rl 26 so will be looking at rl23 and h4831sc all loads thrown on a electric dispenser held to 1/10 gr.

    What will have a greater impact on es .

    OAL. My best groups have always come from kissing the lands, will seating deeper affect es.

    I know neck tension does and try to stay around .002 to stop runout problems . Why I am considering a collet die to introduce a little crimp.



    IYpZW1gFRI6Wdf%pzs0vqg.jpg IMG_0073.JPG IYpZW1gFRI6Wdf%pzs0vqg.jpg IMG_0073.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
    Cold Trigger Finger likes this.
  5. catamountsierra

    catamountsierra Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    I have seen everything from cutting my group size at 100 yards in half (2" to 1" with an old H&R Topper .22 Hornet, 40 gr VMAX) to maybe opening things up a bit, but not enough to be sure it was the crimp. I did find that consistently I got the best results that I was going to get by using a very light crimp rather than crushing a cannelure into the bullets, which the die can do.
     
    JDD likes this.
  6. ar10ar15man

    ar10ar15man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    quit using batt's in the labradar, get a small
    rechargeable batt pack.
    what brass ?
    how is is sorted
    neck turned( it sounds like not)

    small changes come from paying attention to small details
    see if you can get better than 1/10 on the powder.
    are the bullets seated below the shoulder ( body dia not boat tail)

    if on the lands, no need for a crimp.
     
    INVICTUS and JDD like this.
  7. JDD

    JDD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017

    I bought the battery pack it lasted 3 months and won t recharge, New Nosler 280 ackley improved. No sorting. base of the bullet is just past the neck. The loads are dispensed and adjusted by hand. scale claims to be with in a tenth.Now that they are fire formed i will de-prime hydrosonicly clean, trim and uniform primer pockets. I got a tubing mike and will check them for consistency. I turn them if I need to. I want single digs for sd and a es about 10
     
  8. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,474
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Nothing I've done in thirty years made more of a difference in minimizing my ES and SD than using the Lee FCD.

    What I do is load the rounds with just enough tension to keep the bullet from falling in or out and put a light crimp on them.

    This has produced some really amazing consistency for me while avoiding the issues of minimal neck tension.
     
  9. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,474
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Unless I'm mistaken you don't need to use their battery pack. Any USB power source will work.

    When I travel I have backup supplies I carry which are essentially a big battery with the electronics required to charge through USB ports to all my devices.
     
    Germannator likes this.
  10. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,134
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    If the only seating depth you have tried is kissing the lands, you need to try different seating depths. And yes, different seating depths can affect your ES/SD along with powder charge.

    It all depends on how far down the hole you want to go...neck turning, sorting brass and bullets, scales that measure in .001 grains etc. All of these things can help you get your ES down but are you willing to do it and is it worth it for your style or type of shooting?

    If you want to start out slow, just do a seating depth test first, then fine tune with powder charge and see where that gets you.
     
    lightshooter likes this.
  11. JDD

    JDD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
     
  12. JDD

    JDD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    152
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Its what I was thinking , are you annealing on a schuelde
     
  13. ar10ar15man

    ar10ar15man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    if the bullet is going past the shoulder, the brass may move and seriously screw with seating pressure/tension (donut), it happens over time compare seating a new case and a multi fired case
    consider throating a little longer/seating longer
     
  14. ar10ar15man

    ar10ar15man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    883
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2018
    i know no one using a 0.001 scale. lots of 0.02 and a few 0.01.
    no 0.001's
    adding bs to a basically valid comment ruins its use.