Elk arrived!!

sp6x6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
3,853
Location
NW MT
Thats really sad to see.My side of the mountains that you know,is too many predators.We have alot of steep timbered,and large roadless areas.I talked to guides 20 years ago that thought the Bob was overhunted for rifle during the rut. A lot of MT,is over hunted,and should have more restricted trophy areas, draw like on the east side. Very few for elk or deer on west side.Areas around me are so low in numbers like mule deer they shouldnt even have a season. I cant even believe Ive seen this in my lifetime,due to the wilderness nature of areas I hunted.More about the money and tourism any more than the experiance Our former,retired F&G,wolf bioligist.Was Diann Byod for region one. She was the specialist,and did here colledge doctorate probably 40 years ago in the nFork of the flathead.Lived off the grid onland my family owns.Look at the wolfs now
 
Last edited:

5.56×250

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
681
Location
Ga
Ha! "were from the government, and here to help!" The biologists ARE the problem. They get a degree somewhere and come here to sit behind a desk until I force them to actually come look at animals. Local game wardens cant stand them as they know nothing, yet hold all the power. Nothing like an arrogant person arriving at my ranch, at my request, to condescendingly tell me that the XXXX problem right in front of our eyes, does not exist.

Examples:

20 years ago I had a wildlife biologist come to my place due to incredible over population of mule deer. He told me there are only 50 mule deer between Great Falls and Helena MT... and right out my truck window were over 300 decimating a hay stack. I drove him around to count over 2000 in just a half hour around the local ranches' hay stacks. What a Pro!

20 years later, the mulies have tanked. Terrible game management policy and depredation have changed that (Who is in charge of game and predator management? Hint: the "pros"). Speaking of wolves, had an all knowing and wise wildlife biologist just a year ago tell me there are no wolves in my area, and I was literally pointing at wolf tracks in the snow (from the wolf I saw earlier that day) as he said it.
I had a similar experience with a " biologist " several years ago here in Ga. A large realtor company bought up a few thousand acres about 5 miles from my little 100 acre hunting lease. They moved a biologist into a cabin on the property to manage for the highend clients that came to hunt deer and quail . One of my hunting buddies invited the biologist to come give his accessment of our place. He did his walk through, then proceeded to tell us we needed to cull 40 doe to get our population in check. He based this recommendation on a couple trails on creek crossings by counting tracks.
The kicker was i hunted those trails and know for a fact that 95% of the tracks he counted were made by the same doe family group of 7 deer that frequented that area daily ! All they are doing is guessing with a degree to give them a false sense of knowledge !
 

Pmacc60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
222
Wow how sad reading all this! Thirty years ago I watch the elk crossing the North Platte river for the first time in a 100 years near Alcova Wy . I never would believe that this would be in 2020 ! Wolves , slob hunters and poor game management practices .... unreal . This is the problem as I see it , selfish interest driving game management , selfish interest without a clue . Letting atv’s in remote areas , what a joke ! Elk and wilderness hunting aren’t for everyone. If you can’t ride a horse or hike in then take up something else but we are so PC in this country anymore . To many groups out there just making noise and creating so many problems for proper game management . Look I’ll be 60 in March so back country hunting is slipping away from me with every passing year but that’s life. I would much rather know the west is still there and the herds continue on long after I’m not here, lm saddened by this post ! Guys what can we do to stop this? Please let me know your thought on this before it’s too late!
 

joseph singleton

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
1,054
Location
ocala,fl
Wow how sad reading all this! Thirty years ago I watch the elk crossing the North Platte river for the first time in a 100 years near Alcova Wy . I never would believe that this would be in 2020 ! Wolves , slob hunters and poor game management practices .... unreal . This is the problem as I see it , selfish interest driving game management , selfish interest without a clue . Letting atv’s in remote areas , what a joke ! Elk and wilderness hunting aren’t for everyone. If you can’t ride a horse or hike in then take up something else but we are so PC in this country anymore . To many groups out there just making noise and creating so many problems for proper game management . Look I’ll be 60 in March so back country hunting is slipping away from me with every passing year but that’s life. I would much rather know the west is still there and the herds continue on long after I’m not here, lm saddened by this post ! Guys what can we do to stop this? Please let me know your thought on this before it’s too late!
Amen .......
 

JMW67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
395
Location
TEXAS
Wow how sad reading all this! Thirty years ago I watch the elk crossing the North Platte river for the first time in a 100 years near Alcova Wy . I never would believe that this would be in 2020 ! Wolves , slob hunters and poor game management practices .... unreal . This is the problem as I see it , selfish interest driving game management , selfish interest without a clue . Letting atv’s in remote areas , what a joke ! Elk and wilderness hunting aren’t for everyone. If you can’t ride a horse or hike in then take up something else but we are so PC in this country anymore . To many groups out there just making noise and creating so many problems for proper game management . Look I’ll be 60 in March so back country hunting is slipping away from me with every passing year but that’s life. I would much rather know the west is still there and the herds continue on long after I’m not here, lm saddened by this post ! Guys what can we do to stop this? Please let me know your thought on this before it’s too late!
Hate to say it because I am one but you may have to stop out of state hunting unless it is private property land owner tags
 

wapitiaddict

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
81
Location
Idaho
Wow how sad reading all this! Thirty years ago I watch the elk crossing the North Platte river for the first time in a 100 years near Alcova Wy . I never would believe that this would be in 2020 ! Wolves , slob hunters and poor game management practices .... unreal . This is the problem as I see it , selfish interest driving game management , selfish interest without a clue . Letting atv’s in remote areas , what a joke ! Elk and wilderness hunting aren’t for everyone. If you can’t ride a horse or hike in then take up something else but we are so PC in this country anymore . To many groups out there just making noise and creating so many problems for proper game management . Look I’ll be 60 in March so back country hunting is slipping away from me with every passing year but that’s life. I would much rather know the west is still there and the herds continue on long after I’m not here, lm saddened by this post ! Guys what can we do to stop this? Please let me know your thought on this before it’s too late!
My thoughts are that law abiding hunters need to stand up to law breaking hunters by calling them out and turning them in. The game agencies won't do it or can't do it. Nobody likes being a snitch, or doesn't want to offend a fellow hunting partner, but we owe it to the animals we hunt and our kids that will grow up either hunting or not hunting based on the consequences of our actions today.
I used to hold my tongue when some hunter would be bragging about some illegal or unethical hunting practice...now I've made it a point to call them out...even if it's a friend.
 

wapitiaddict

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
81
Location
Idaho
My thoughts are that law abiding hunters need to stand up to law breaking hunters by calling them out and turning them in. The game agencies won't do it or can't do it. Nobody likes being a snitch, or doesn't want to offend a fellow hunting partner, but we owe it to the animals we hunt and our kids that will grow up either hunting or not hunting based on the consequences of our actions today.
I used to hold my tongue when some hunter would be bragging about some illegal or unethical hunting practice...now I've made it a point to call them out...even if it's a friend.
On that note, fellow hunters be warned: if you are hunting in Idaho and you are using an ATV in a non-motorized hunting unit that I'm in, I will turn you in! You can't plead ignorence...it's spelled out in detail right in the regs for each unit it applies to.
 

bdlesh

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
214
Location
texas
I want to go on an elk hunt before I die. From the looks of things, I might out live the elk.
We talk about how the poachers in Africa are killing off everything and blame the people trying to stay alive. So what do we do? We kill everything just to kill something. Most of us are good stewards of nature. Sadly the few that are the problem more than make up for our good deeds.
My idea of hunting isnt driving all over and chasing game. I want to pack in and be part of nature. I dont actually want to shoot an elk or even deer anymore. But I sure do love being out and taking it all in. Now as for hog, wolves, coyotes and squirrels.....it's game on!
Maybe we need a hunters season? Thin the herd of the culls
 

corsair4360

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
217
Location
Logan Utah
Sledhead and others: Sorry to hear of the mess described in Montana.

The situation to the south of you in Utah is different, but similar. In Utah the state wildlife management team are paid out of license fees, etc only, no state budget to support them. As a result the licenses especially for elk are a zoo, non-residents a little worse than state residents, all to maximize revenue. Residents are a little better off but not much. Compound that with poachers, who are still active in the state and you have a real mess.

Were we hunt the access is all via public lands, but the elk move high up in the mountains to avoid people.

I am now retired and in my 70's which makes getting into the back country a challenge.
 

Alb Greg

Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
20
Location
Bernalillo New Mexico
Great pic, I have a cabin in Ute Park NM and they started showing up about 2 weeks ago. The herd looks strong and healthy. Expecting a good hunt this Nov.
 

sp6x6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
3,853
Location
NW MT
yes Bigngreen,Im having to look east,I only know about one hunter thats sticks it out on this side.More people condensed,for opportunity.I dont want to go there,it logistically harder,but I feel like I have waisted my last 5 years on this side,sad what has happening
 

Bingoc

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
90
Location
Richland ,WA
I applaud all of the above authors for their written observations of the plight of our wildlife and their honest opinion of ways to curb it so we don't loose a valuable resource. I agree with all observations and have experienced it for decades. It is time that we all (in mass) voiced our opinion in open forums. It is really like everything else in life - you can't depend on anyone else to take care of what is dear to you.
I have lived and hunted in the states of Missouri, Virginia, Idaho, Utah, and Washington and hunted in Wyoming, and Montana for the past 60 years. I have also fished for salmon and steelhead mostly alone in Washington State and British Columbia. I have hunted again mostly alone and have successfully taken moose, sheep, goats, antelope, deer, mountain lion, bobcat, and coons. I bet there in not many folks in this forum that own coon dogs. My best friend is a pack frame and alfalfa sack.
I have met some wonderful folks in the process. This includes landowners, biologists, game wardens, forest rangers, representatives of state departments of fish and wildlife. In fact I have participated in game counts, depredation hunts, and have been associated with a department of fish and wildlife for a number of years.
My opinion is that the problem is too many people, company and individual greed, too much advertisement, too few biologists, too few game wardens, too few judges, and the lack of Mass Public Opinion. Funding for the preservation of wildlife and habit is the last item in the state's budget and has the least pressure for approval.
Following are some examples:
*) Fish and game tickets are the last items on the judge's dockets. With all of the crime in our society, it is no wonder that the fish and game trials get put off for months, and the fine/punishment is usually minimal so it won't be contested. What does this do to the morale of the game warden?
+) Have you ever seen how few game wardens the states have, and can you believe the extent of land that they have as their jurisdiction?
+) As we all know the introduction of the wolves by the federal government has decimated the deer, elk, and moose populations. And the states have had to expend huge sums of money and time of their staff to accommodate this federal mandate.
+) Introduction of the Atlantic salmon fish farms off the coasts of WA state and BC have devastated the returns of the smolt from most west coast rivers due to the parasites they pick up from visiting the farms for an easy meal.
And the list goes on as you all have documented above.
Well, so as usual if we are going to stop this carnage, it will be up to us. I don't have a solution, but we have all noticed it, and it is time to let the politicians and corporate folks our displeasure. But it needs to start at the local level with the state agencies and law enforcement.
 

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