ELD-M vs Berger

[MTbackwoods]

Why guys want to shoot animals with an ELDM bullet is beyond me the bullet was designed for target shooting it is not ever intended to shoot animals that's why there is an E LDX bullet

For the same reason guys used to hunt with the AMAX. Same reason guys started hunting with Bergers which lead the company to "create" a "hunting line" of bullets. Some target bullets have become some of the most popular hunting bullets on the market. Why? They put game down. Do they work perfectly every time? No. In my case the Berger failed but the ELDM did a great job. I just placed the bullet poorly but that will happen when you have an animal get back up and you want to put them back down. Your nerves aren't as steady. But I'll be running 225 Lazers next season and we'll see how that goes

 

[sfdoc2000]

There are previous threads on this site that show the known drop in BC on the ELD bullets as the bullet goes downrange. There are several ranges of BC depending on the speed of the bullet at that particular distance. Folks on other sites have recommended to load for the range you are shooting and use that BC for the rest of your calculations, knowing that the BC will be slightly higher at shorter range and less at longer ranges.

 

[AlexJN]

In 6.5 the Hornady bullets drop pretty close to what they should out to 1100, I have sub 1/2 shooting load for 156 Berger I'll be testing at 1100 soon

 

[PNWdude67]

I know the Berger fan boys think the VLD is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and swear every other bullet in the world has false BC values.

The ELD's seem like they are hugely popular, so I want to know from the guys that have shot them to 1000 yards and beyond. Does the BC seem to be accurate with your actual shots. In other words, do the Ballistic charts line up with your experiences?

I had Bergers for my other 300 RUM. The tip of every bullet was deformed, and all in different ways. That can not help its BC.

Not a "fan boy" of any particular bullet or manufacture. Having used them all recently, in .223, 6mm, 6.5, 7mm all bolt guns and verified drops out to a mile in various conditions. (Not with the 22 Wylde duh) Here are my favorites:
.223 Nosler RDF 77 grain
6 mm Berger 109 LRHT and Nosler 115 RDF
6.5 mm Berger 156 EOL and 153.5 LRHT and Nosler 140 RDF
7 mm Nosler 185 RDF and Berger 175 elite hunter. (I do like the 195 EOL just not as much as the 175 in the 7SS case, maybe the 7 Max will bring it to life for me)

the ones I personally will not buy again Hornady and Sierra. Tested match kings, ELDMs and some ATIPs ... they underperformed the Nosler and Bergers in my experience. To be fair may need more experience with the Sierra but it never came together in load development like the Noslers and Bergers seem to do almost effortlessly and predictably. The ELDMs were accurate and the ATIP was just not any better for the added cost and maybe even less consistent than both the Nosler and Berger in the 6.5 caliber. The main reason I will stay clear of the Hornady for anything hunting is I have seen their EL bullets in all of these calibers go up in a white cloud of smoke about 150 yards down range. The last thing we want and the first thing Murphy's law dictates will happen to me, is the day I have the once in a lifetime tag in my pack and that once in a lifetime ram in my reticle view, will be the day the first ELD bullet vaporizes for me and with it my dream hunt .08 seconds after leaving the muzzle. There are things we can control and things we can't. I can ensure a Hornady bullet will not do this on my hunt by never having one chambered in in my rifle in a hunting scenario. I have a few hundred laying around I will use them for fire forming and practice on steel and when they're gone they're gone. They are a great company, ran by great folks and will get it squared away and succeed, just will not have my biz when Nosler and Berger have knocked it out id the park for us on steel and game consistently.

 

[StumpGrinder]

My only issue with Berger, is the fragmenting part. What if you need to through the shoulder? I like quartering-to shots with an Accubond, Partition, or A-Frame. Especially with a TSX.

So that's my next question. If you go through the shoulder, does anything actually make it to the heart?

FMJs or match bullets tumble when they hit. Not quite as devastating as hollow points at close range but always tumble and usually exit. If their legal to hunt with in your state try them. I shot a doe on a depradation tag over the summer with 5.56 62 grain FMJ. It went 30 yards, exit hole the size of a quarter. Long spitzer style bullets are the magic bullet. They kill way above their class almost always stay intact and exit. The chest cavity on the doe was like jello! Don't take my word for it, look at brass catcher and other YouTube videos on FMJs in balistic gell. Spitzer shaped rifle bullets always tumble and always exit the fell block. Pistol fmj bullets DON'T always tumble because their not long enough. They do just make a small hole all the way through.

 

[StumpGrinder]

This I want to know as well from the Berger experts.

You'll have the same issue with thw ELD, but I believe that's where going heavier comes in to play, meaning, I'll use the 180gr vs the 168gr in my 7mm Rem Mag or you the 210gr vs the 185gr. In my experience the heavier the bullet the more penetration you get.

If you are still concerned then a bonded will work best but provably not as high BC for longer range though. The quest for the magical do it all bullet Lol.

That said I still would like to know if the heavier Bergers do go through the shoulder of a larger game animal and smooch the lungs.

Stay safe

The term "magical bullet" came from the devastating wounds caused by the 5.56 FMJs in combat. Because hollow points and soft points were not humane according to the Geneva Convention. FMJs were only allowed in combat, the M16 with its slower twist destabilized on impact causing massive wounds.

 

[436]

I know the Berger fan boys think the VLD is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and swear every other bullet in the world has false BC values.

The ELD's seem like they are hugely popular, so I want to know from the guys that have shot them to 1000 yards and beyond. Does the BC seem to be accurate with your actual shots. In other words, do the Ballistic charts line up with your experiences?

I had Bergers for my other 300 RUM. The tip of every bullet was deformed, and all in different ways. That can not help its BC.

At long range, BC is about staying supersonic. I don't believe it really has much to do with actual accuracy. B.C for most LR shooters I believe is rarely dead nuts accurate, somewhat close but not dead on, they find their BC by shooting the course and then computing their elevation adjust based one 100 yards zero to 1000 yards then the BC in the computer program changing it up and down until the graph matches your range adjustment out to 1k.. that always gave me a feel for the real B.C with the load and bullet I was using in my program. From what I understand most BC from manufactures is taken somewhere between 100 and 300 yards, the 1k method has always worked for me.
Bottom line; if a shooter wants to find out which bullet is better, buy a box of each and have it, one of them will come out the winner in your rifle in the end. Good Luck and Cheers!

 

[TBell]

I know the Berger fan boys think the VLD is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and swear every other bullet in the world has false BC values.

The ELD's seem like they are hugely popular, so I want to know from the guys that have shot them to 1000 yards and beyond. Does the BC seem to be accurate with your actual shots. In other words, do the Ballistic charts line up with your experiences?

I had Bergers for my other 300 RUM. The tip of every bullet was deformed, and all in different ways. That can not help its BC.

Very happy with my ELD-m's. I use Ballistic AE for my ballistic solutions and a G-7 range finder. Take a shot at 100 with Honadys BC, and my Velocities from my magneto-speed chronograph then straight to the six hundred yard steels with fresh paint on the 24" steel at 600, slightly high or low put +- in inches into Ballistic AE pops out the new velocity and shooting solution. Make MOA correction on turret, wack good at 600 and everything in between.

that is the way it has worked out in the past.

mind you that is after several trips to tweak the powder load for accuracy, to bring it into the sweet spot.

 

[Overkill338]

The crazy thing is that even with the slow start those a tips bc is so high that according to my ballistic calculator (which we all acknowledge isn't gospel truth but close enough ) the 30-06 stays supersonic to over a mile with that bullet. Interesting...

That is really freaking cool!

What is the Question. Maybe someone needs do their homhomework

This is the homework. The question was simple; in everyone's experience, has the BC advertised on the ELD bullets, lined up with their actual drops? Why is that so hard to comprehend? A Berger user suggested a few days ago, in one of my other posts, that the BC on the ELD is flawed, and Berger was best. So that brought this up.

 

[Overkill338]

I've tried both bullets in my 7mm Rem mag and my 338 RUM. The Bergers printed smaller groups more easily but both bc's held true for me out to 950 yards. Having said that, the 300 gr OTM dropped my whitetail buck at 550 yards. 2 minutes later he stood back up and began walking around again. I switched to the 285 ELDM and hit him again at 650, a bit high and severed the spine. Both the back straps were destroyed along with the tenderloins. I was never able to determine exactly where the Berger hit him because I only found a pinhole in his neck but no other damage aside from where the ELD nearly cut him in half. I'm switching to monos for next year

For actual hunting, I use Accubonds or TSX. I just bought some Cutting Edge 180 MTH, I may try those.

Try the new 205 EHs, a lot easier to tune. I'm making the switch with my 300 WM. And I've had great results with the EHs on game so far. The little 140 EH in 6.5 is pretty devastating.

I may try those instead of the 210's like I had before.

for cup and core bullets hornady has always been on the bottom of my list start measuring and weighing bullets and you will see why I am not just talking about different lots I have seen large differences within the same lot that said I have had to use them in guns that shot nothing else well but those rifles left the stable quickly I will not have a rifle that is that picky

I made a post here a few days ago where I weighed ten of the 225 ELD-M, 220 ELD-X, and 212 ELD-X.

 

[JMW67]

I did not see your thread on that what were your findings

 

[Rob01]

I know the Berger fan boys think the VLD is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and swear every other bullet in the world has false BC values.

The ELD's seem like they are hugely popular, so I want to know from the guys that have shot them to 1000 yards and beyond. Does the BC seem to be accurate with your actual shots. In other words, do the Ballistic charts line up with your experiences?

I had Bergers for my other 300 RUM. The tip of every bullet was deformed, and all in different ways. That can not help its BC.

If you are using the Hornady ELD-M or X then do yourself a favor and use the Hornady 4DOF program. It's free online and as an app. It uses Hornady's custom curves which are derived from Doppler testing and not BCs. They are very accurate. I have used them at a mile with the 7mm 180 ELD-M and have used it since it came out with my match rifles in .223, .308, 6 and 6.5 Creedmoor. 4DOF is very accurate.

 

[375 JDJ]

This I want to know as well from the Berger experts.

You'll have the same issue with thw ELD, but I believe that's where going heavier comes in to play, meaning, I'll use the 180gr vs the 168gr in my 7mm Rem Mag or you the 210gr vs the 185gr. In my experience the heavier the bullet the more penetration you get.

If you are still concerned then a bonded will work best but provably not as high BC for longer range though. The quest for the magical do it all bullet Lol.

That said I still would like to know if the heavier Bergers do go through the shoulder of a larger game animal and smooch the lungs.

Stay safe

I been using the horndarys in 220gr ELD-X of my 300RUM with a 1n9 twist haven't had any problems with them

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

If you are using the Hornady ELD-M or X then do yourself a favor and use the Hornady 4DOF program. It's free online and as an app. It uses Hornady's custom curves which are derived from Doppler testing and not BCs. They are very accurate. I have used them at a mile with the 7mm 180 ELD-M and have used it since it came out with my match rifles in .223, .308, 6 and 6.5 Creedmoor. 4DOF is very accurate.

I've also found 4dof to be pretty accurate for the most part. My last batch of 140 eld-m I had to adjust my form factor to 1.09 I think