E2K ELR match Townsend MT. 2000 yards

Discussion in 'Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)' started by Alex Wheeler, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Will E2K be incorporated (LLC or otherwise)?
     
  2. tom m.

    tom m. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009


    Because when you start measuring groups, it becomes a sport of "excellence".


    To the bench question. The range we are holding the first match on does have benches. You have 15 minutes to set up regardless. This will be for unlimited class, but the option to shoot off the ground is available. The bipod classes are to be shot from prone, unless the shooter is disabled and gets approval from the match director.

    We just want to see what is possible from a precision standpoint. It takes competition and measuring groups to find out.

    I'm sure there is going to be quite the learning curve at first. Alex, nor myself, are not new to running matches. But trying to figure out all of what might come up that got overlooked is like pissing in the wind lol.

    I will go copy and paste the latest updated draft. We had no idea how many were interested in a "sporter/hunter" class. We added a third, more restrictive class for now for them. That alone is something that needs to play out, and if there isn't enough interest in a certain class to fill a relay, we will have to look at doing away with it.

    The only thing I wanted to make sure there was a class for the current ELR guns that others are already competing with. So I looked at the ko2m rules for that one.


    Tom
     
  3. tom m.

    tom m. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Here you go guys, after much interest in a "normal" rifle class.. We are looking for input, so as to try and get this right from the beginning so speak up.

    Elite 2000 yard Association

    Rules (draft 2-8-2018)



    Classes

    1- ELR

    1a Rifle weight not to exceed 40lbs including all attachments and "as fired"

    1b Rifle must be supported by an attached bipod in the front. The rear may be supported by anything except a mechanical rest. Attached monopods are legal.

    1c Rifle to be fired from prone position.
    * If physically unable to get into a prone position the shooter may use a bench (if available) at the match directors discretion.


    2- UNLIMITED

    2a- Unlimited, with the only exceptions listed under "Both classes"

    2b- Rifles may be fired from benches (if available), or from prone position.


    HUNTER GUN

    18 LBS as fired, foldable bipod only. Fired from prone. *disabled may shoot off bench at match director approval.

    Rules for ALL classes.


    Set up time.

    1. Once your relay is called to the firing line, you will have 15 minutes for set up.

    Wind flags:
    1. Are allowed, but must be set no higher then at the "line of sight"
    2. Are subject to the Match Directors discretion and approval

    Miscellaneous:

    1.No instrument that collects or records data allowed forward of the firing line.
    All instrumentation subject to the range officers discretion and approval.


    Rifle scopes / sights:
    1. Must be adjusted by the shooter for POA corrections. (No "smart scopes".


    Course of fire.


    Sighter period will be unlimited shots. You will be given 5 minutes at the command "commence fire". The range officer will announce time warnings at 2 minutes, 1 minute, 30 seconds, and 15 seconds remaining. The R.O. will command "cease fire", and bolts must be removed at this time. This is a COLD RANGE period for the target crew to go in and raise targets, or paste accidental hits. Once the targets are up, and pit sealed the R.O. will announce the 3 minute final sight in period. R.O. will command "commence fire", and shooters have unlimited sighters at the sight in bank. Any shots on record targets at this time will result in disqualification from the relay. R.O. shall give time warnings at 2 minutes, 1 minute, 30 seconds, and 15 seconds and "cease fire". The R.O. will then immediately give the command "commence fire on record targets". Shooters will have 10 minutes to complete their 5 shots for record. Time warnings will be announced at 3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute, 30 seconds and 15 seconds.


    The targets dimensions are as follows: (MR-1)

    72" x 64"
    X=6"
    10=12"
    9=18"
    8=24"
    7=36"
    6=48"
    5=60"
    0=on paper outside rings, but will qualify for group


    Scoring/awards

    Each official match will consist of a 3 target aggregate for each class for both group and score.


    Ties for score will be broken by smallest group. If there is still a tie, it will be broken by x count. If there is still a tie, it will be broken by closest to center.

    Group ties will be broken by highest score.


    Targets with fewer than 5 shots:
    1. 72" will be added to the group size for each missing shot
    2. Missing shots will count "0" for score.

    Group's outside the repair centers will be measured, scored, and pasted over for reuse. Group's that stay within the repair centers will be taken down, and given to the competitor after it's been officially scored.

    Winners will be announced for the following...

    3 GUN overall

    HUNTER gun overall

    Unlimited gun overall

    ELR gun overall

    HUNTER gun group

    HUNTER gun score

    Unlimited gun group

    Unlimited gun score

    ELR gun group

    ELR gun score


    WORLD RECORDS will be acknowledged for the following.

    Unlimited gun

    - Small group
    - High score
    - 3 target aggregate group
    - 3 target aggregate score


    ELR gun

    - Small group
    - High score
    - 3 target aggregate group
    - 3 target aggregate score

    HUNTER GUN

    -small group
    -high score
    -3 target aggregate group
    -3 target aggregate score


    3 GUN

    -9 target aggregate group
    -9 target aggregate score
     
    calib likes this.
  4. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Theres no money involved, so I see no point in becoming an llc.
    Elite is just a word to sound catchy, like Tactical. I do agree with Tom, measuring groups does make it a sport of excellence. Kind of like when I used to drag race, everyone had a 10 second ride until you took it to the drag strip and got your time slip.

    The class rules are printed above, but it the case of the firearm I was talking about, its a 15lb or so 338 cheytac pistol. It would fit in the unlimited class at the moment only because he shoots it from a bench rest. If he mounted a folding bipod and went prone it could fit in the other 2 classes as well. And he could shoot it in all 3 classes if he chose to. But the only bench class is unlimited.
     
  5. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Tom - thanks for the quick post.

    Since you are "only" shooting at 2000 yards, why the "huge" target? [The URSA gong (37" diameter, round) is "patterned" after the outer ring of the readily-available IBS and NBRSA 1000 yard target (which you probably have a bunch of).]

    How many shooting points will you have available for concurrent shooting at 2000?

    Having never seen your facility other than web pics, will you have a 2000 yard pit? Will the holes in the targets be "pinned" (sorry forgot what those little red golf spikes are called), so the shooter can see where they hit?

    I'm assuming the 15 minute setup is AFTER the prior relay has cleared out. Correct?
     
  6. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    How about E for "Excellence (at) 2K"?
     
  7. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Alex - in regards an LLC, I live in California...

    I'll "assume" you will be under the "coverage" of the Hellgate Civilian Shooters Association. Correct? And that "club" owns the land out well past 2000 yards? Correct? Can you go further? How far?
     
  8. tom m.

    tom m. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Yes sir


    10 @ 20' between shooters

    We haven't seen it either, lol. This is going to be at the Townsend range. They are building a 250 foot berm, and we will put clay birds on the berm in the 20' area between targets for sighters. Once sighter period ends, your 5 record shots will be "blind".


    I was all for the current IBS 1KBR targets for this, and then just a 42" penalty for each miss. We want people to be on paper as much as possible, although Townsend is over in windy country.


    Tom
     
    dmoran likes this.
  9. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    This will not be held at deep creek. There will not be pits at this range. There will be a berm to sight in on, clay birds, or other objects. Then you will transition to the record target and shoot your group. The targets are 1000 yard high power targets. They are available. Your only supposed to use the 10 ring, dont worry about the extra paper around it. Thats for guys like me or if the wind decides to blow like usual.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    Bax, HARPERC and RockyMtnMT like this.
  10. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    We will be covered under the ranges liability. Targets go to 2400 yards. You thinking of shooting?
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  11. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    My inquiry was (intended to be) about whether the shooter will have their targets "tagged" (doyly pin in each hole) during the sighter period (placed their by the pit crew). Will they have that "visibility"?
     
  12. ELR Researcher

    ELR Researcher Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    jfseaman likes this.
  13. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    433
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    I personally have no interest in hit or miss style matches but maybe someone else wants to step up and run them.
     
  14. tom m.

    tom m. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009

    No, this range won't have pits. So we'll have to help each other with spotting scopes, and sighters on birds or gongs nearby the targets. The last 2 1k nationals I attended were ran this way without pits, and it works out almost better. We have to have them put the berm in pretty vertical to be ideal.

    Tom