Done with 215 Bergers

Troutslayer2

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May 28, 2010
Messages
415
250Savage not enough eh.........amazing stuff happens eh

I have zero and I mean zero doubt in any of those shots that my 22/250 with 55's to 63's (cnc) would of put all of them down shoulder or no shoulder right now!

I've long said, if you use something long enough that sooner or later it'll do something that makes you go hmm..

Yah I have no doubt an arrow launched a couple hundred FPS would have killed all 3 with the same shot placement. Put holes in things and they die.
 

Tdeyo

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Aug 31, 2020
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157
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Montana
If it were me I would give the Hornady Eldx's a try or go to the Berger Hunter or Elite. on some of the Berger Classic Hunters you will find the B.C. is higher than the VLD's. I shot a few mule deer w/ 240 WBY MAG at distances of 100 yds to 240 yds w/ 105 gr. VLD Hunters, all shots were right through the boiler room and the deer traveled anywhere from 75 yds. to 200 yds before tipping over. I didn't find the devastating wound channel that some speak of - small entrance and exit wounds and I was unable to recover spent rounds. On the other hand I shot a Whitetail Buck with 185 gr. Classic Hunter out of a 300 Win Mag at 200 yds thru the lungs and he dropped like a rock. Wound channel was devastating, lungs were toast, small entrance wound, baseball size exit wound, didn't catch a rib on the way in or out. I was impressed with the performance, however I quit hunting with them due to the fact that grizzly population is now extremely high where I hunt. I went to 200 gr. Swift A Frames- too many close calls- gave up the high B.C. for penetration and weight retention.
 

jevyod

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May 11, 2020
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Central Pa
Thanks OP for starting this, and everyone that added their voice whether agreeing or dissenting. I read the entire thread and there is much food for thought here. I don't have near the opportunities that some of you all have to hunt, so I rely a lot on others' experience with certain bullets. What I have gathered again is there are people who want a pass through no matter the distance or placement, and those who prefer to have a bullet expel all the energy into the animal. And they want that mystical, perfect bullet to do what they ask at all distances and angles. The more I read threads like this, the more I realize you can't have your cake and eat it to. So where I primarily hunt, most shots are under 100 yards. And thick enough that a Blood trail is necessary. So Bergers will not be used for that application (or Hornady ELD-X). But if I hunted where I did several years ago, where a 400 yard shot were easily possible and it was fairly open, then I may consider a different bullet. The thing that makes it challenging is if we hunt areas where both are equally possible. Then you need to be willing to compromise a bit on bullet selection. Anyway, all good points here, and will be considering this more.
 

Steve Metz

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Sep 30, 2018
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138
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Ohio
I'll never understand why people hunt with target bullets. I don't care that someone 'tested' it and its better than sliced bread. I've seen way too many stories like yours. It shows a remarkable lack of respect for the ethics of hunting.
I shoot the 210 VLD in my 300wm with great results. A nice 5x5 in 2018 one and done at 400yds! I run them at 2950 fps out of my 24" Criterion barrel and they are an elk poleaxe! Shot placement is near everything.
 

bearcat2

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Jul 13, 2009
Messages
141
Never tried the 215s, I don't have a gun that is designed to shoot them. I do use the 180 gr .284 VLD hunting bullets though. I have shot a lot of both deer and elk with them, from 10 yards to 820 yards. I am leery of a shoulder shot at close range (under 150) particularly on an elk, and in my opinion they perform best past 400 yards in my rifle (3100 fps MV). I don't particularly like their total lack of knockdown on elk. Only ones I've had get knocked down on impact were two quartering on shots on the point of the shoulder that flat ironed them (one at 475 and the other at a guesstimated 175 running). Everything else at longer ranges on elk didn't seem to notice they were hit. I don't like that, but they do seem to kill good and they shoot so dang accurate out of my rifle that I keep using them. A couple years ago I shot a HUGE bodied 5x6 bull at 620 yards. quartering slightly away, hit him in the ribs and went through the off shoulder, he turned around, faced the other direction and I made an identical shot through the ribs and through the off shoulderblade. I only had the two bullets (had another rifle with me, but it was my only day off and I got home after midnight and managed to misplace all my bullets except the two that were in the magazine in the safe) so instead of keeping shooting I was laying there staring through the scope and he started to wobble and fell over. Both bullets were recovered perfectly mushroomed under the hide after penetrating the far shoulder blade. That won't happen at closer ranges/higher velocities with that bullet. But then it is dang hard to make a bullet that will perform the same at 50 yards and 700 yards out of the same rifle. A guy does the best he can and picks a bullet that will perform best at his expected range and compensates or doesn't shoot if the range is vastly different.

Example, I wouldn't take a 700 yard shot with a Remington Cor-lokt, not because I don't think it is a good bullet, but because it isn't designed for that kind of long range shooting and I wouldn't trust it hitting where I aimed, I also wouldn't take a shoulder shot with a Berger on an elk at 20 yards.
 

Tdeyo

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Aug 31, 2020
Messages
157
Location
Montana
Far more mixed reviews on the ELDX("hunting" bullet) than on the ELDM("target" bullet). Again all anecdotal but over all experiences I have seen(and directly heard) the ELDM seems to be more consistent.
I am looking into having a 300 PRC built on an older Ruger action that was a 300 Win Mag. Was planning on shooting ELDX's, however I am always looking at alternatives. When you say the ELDM is more consistent in your research, are you personally shooting them and in what way are they more consistent ie: weight retention. expansion etc..?
 

clacka6mm

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Nov 22, 2014
Messages
148
TO ME it sounds like a TRACKING ISSUE NOT A BULLET ISSUE ALWAYS FOLLOW THE TRACKS UNTIL YOU FIND THE ANIMAL OR LOSE THE TRACK
 

clacka6mm

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Nov 22, 2014
Messages
148
4/8 perfect performance
1/8 killed with a single gut shot
2/8 no proof animal was hit
1/8 poor performance

if you change bullets here we are hoping to improve the 1/8 poor performance, and possibly get an easier track job on the recovered gut shot.

seems like most of your shots are under 400 I’d imagine a pretty tough bullet would work out to there so you have lots of options. Irrational or not I’m not going into the woods with something I don’t trust so if you’re unhappy I say test the waters if you can find other bullets that shoot small.

SUB 400 YDS/.... 200 grain nosler partition....................
 

rfurman24

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Aug 29, 2010
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2,963
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Kansas
I am looking into having a 300 PRC built on an older Ruger action that was a 300 Win Mag. Was planning on shooting ELDX's, however I am always looking at alternatives. When you say the ELDM is more consistent in your research, are you personally shooting them and in what way are they more consistent ie: weight retention. expansion etc..?

First I would rethink the 300 PRC on a Ruger. If I am not mistaken the mag box is 3.4" the magnums like 375 Ruger/H&H are 3.6". Both of those are too short to take full advantage of the cartridge.

Yes I shoot ELDMs. I do not shoot ELDXs because I have never been able to get them to shoot accurately. When I say the ELDMs are more consistent I am taking about the terminal performance from those, I trust, who have used them. Actual terminal performance is always going to be anecdotal(despite what some believe). In any case the 215 Berger still outperforms the ELDs and the 230 Berger does as well.
 

The Oregonian

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Jul 20, 2012
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1,232
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Missoula, Montana
I just rebarreled my 28N to 30N (the barrel was almost shot out anyway) specifically bc of how well the 215 has performed for and been reported on by Broz. Can’t wait to start playing with it.
 

Tdeyo

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Aug 31, 2020
Messages
157
Location
Montana
First I would rethink the 300 PRC on a Ruger. If I am not mistaken the mag box is 3.4" the magnums like 375 Ruger/H&H are 3.6". Both of those are too short to take full advantage of the cartridge.

Yes I shoot ELDMs. I do not shoot ELDXs because I have never been able to get them to shoot accurately. When I say the ELDMs are more consistent I am taking about the terminal performance from those, I trust, who have used them. Actual terminal performance is always going to be anecdotal(despite what some believe). In any case the 215 Berger still outperforms the ELDs and the 230 Berger does as well.
Yeah. I noticed that. I am going to replace the wood stock w/ composite Mcmillan most likely, magazine extension as well. It appears as though there is ample room for modification of the feed ramp without changing the angle of feed too much. Going to run it by a gunsmith as soon as i find one - mine retired - then have douglas put a premium barrel and do the bolt work after the mag work etc and the action is fitted to the stock. Would like the smith to modify my trigger to a single stage set trigger as well. Thanks for the feedback !
 

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