Does Weatherby brass hold more powder

[smithjasona1978]

I just got a 300 WBY and am going to start working up a load for it. I got 7828, Retumbo, and RE25.
Anyway the guy that sold me the rifle said I can get more velocity if I use genuine Weatherby brass because it is made with thinner brass which increases case capacity. I have been reloading for my 243 and 300 win mag for a while now but this is my first WBY cartridge. So is it true?? Does Weatherby brass have more capacity than Hornady or Nosler? And since Norma makes Weatherby brass (I think), will Norma 300WBY brass have the same powder capacity as Weatherby 300WBY brass?? I would rather not buy a bunch of different brands just to check the capacity. If anyone has several brands on hand I would appreciate the info.

 

[Gene R.]

I believe Norma, Wby and nosler are actually all made by Norma. Hornady brass blows! Total junk I'd rather shoot Win.brass. With Nosler they are fully prepped is my understanding. Nosler site has frequent sales on wby brass. As for capacity not sure of difference in capacity.

Gene

 

[MagnumManiac]

I just got a 300 WBY and am going to start working up a load for it. I got 7828, Retumbo, and RE25.
Anyway the guy that sold me the rifle said I can get more velocity if I use genuine Weatherby brass because it is made with thinner brass which increases case capacity. I have been reloading for my 243 and 300 win mag for a while now but this is my first WBY cartridge. So is it true?? Does Weatherby brass have more capacity than Hornady or Nosler? And since Norma makes Weatherby brass (I think), will Norma 300WBY brass have the same powder capacity as Weatherby 300WBY brass?? I would rather not buy a bunch of different brands just to check the capacity. If anyone has several brands on hand I would appreciate the info.

Yes, Weatherby brass has more capacity, and, the Norma branded brass is IDENTICAL as Weatherby brass, only the headstamp and PRICE are different.
As to the more velocity, internal volume that is MORE, will produce LESS pressure with the SAME powder load. I use Norma brass, it is thin, and primer pockets will open early if you push the pressure. I would recommend staying in posted manual loading.
I like it, it is very consistent, BUT, you cannot push it for long, it will fail in the pocket.
I don't have a problem with most brands of brass, except Federal, it is JUNK in my experience and not suitable for reloading. Hornady is OK, if you can get it. I like it in 300WM, 458 Lott and 416 Rigby.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[sable tireur]

smithjasona1978,

I have to ask...

If the outside dimensions of a case have to remain the same to meet SAAMI specifications and you make the internal walls of that case thinner, how much do you really think you gain? One grain, maybe two grains? It can't be that much and the increased velocity from that little increase in capacity will be minuscule if you increase the charge. Otherwise as stated, the pressure goes down.

This is not like making the outside of a case 'improved' like in the Ackley form where the gain of interior volume can be significant when compared to this.

Regards.

 

[Boman]

From my loading in past years the Wby/Norma brass is thinner and does hold more powder than Federal, which is the only other one I've compared to. Norma makes Wby brass. I saw no difference from Factory marked Wby and Norma brass.

 

[smithjasona1978]

That is exactly why I am asking. I cant imagine there being much difference. I posted this on Weatherby nation and a guy said Weatherby/Norma cases hold 106.1 and the other brand he checked held 101.8.

 

[sable tireur]

smithjasona1978,

I went over there and found your thread about the capacity of the .300 WBY cartridge cases. Devoted folks, I'd say.

I think what we're looking at is situation of extreme examples. I think they are intentionally trying to demonstrate a larger than average difference in volume. But I will admit that if you weigh Remington cases, they can be in many situations, heavier than other brands of the same case. Heavier cases is a good indicator of less interior volume. Lighter cases usually have a greater volume.

I always hated statistics in college but for lots of subjects it can be a saving grace. The problem becomes one of the sample size. Using one case from each manufacturer is not the best sample size to prove anything. But I am certainly NOT going to weigh and sort 100 pieces of brass from each manufacturer in order to increase the sample set either.

If you are concerned that this might be a significant loss of velocity I would have to say think again. I mashed some numbers around fairly quickly to come up with the potential loss for possibly 126 ft/sec. between the larger volume and the smaller volume. I've seen this amount of variance between two different barrel makers and similar rifles shooting the same ammunition. Is it significant? Not in my opinion but to those folks who are extreme in their attention to the infinitesimally small details this might be huge.

Regards.

 

[Mikecr]

If you are concerned that this might be a significant loss of velocity I would have to say think again. I mashed some numbers around fairly quickly to come up with the potential loss for possibly 126 ft/sec.

That's big IMO. Remember, there is nothing more powerful in ballistics than accuracy.
If a case change put you 126f/s from your best node, it could be very far to chase after.
It could change everything like barrel changes do, but with a case change instead.

 

[dwm]

I have been using Hornady 270 Weatherby brass and it seems very good, price is not bad either. I have not pushed it very hard though either. I have some Norma 270 Weatherby brass but have not tried it. In other cases like 270 Win, Hornady brass has less case capacity than most other choices such as Norma, Win, Rem. IMO as far as constancy, Norma rules...

 

[sable tireur]

If a case change put you 126f/s from your best node, it could be very far to chase after.

Only if you're at the very top end accuracy node and there's nowhere else to go or if you run out of space in the case.

You're extrapolating a case change from an established node as if this is a finite occurrence. Switch cases again until you either find the balance with a different case or until you can renew your supply of the original cases.

We've done this for years when chasing nodes in long range benchrest when a source dries up, you find another that's available and test again. Every time Lapua brass dried up we had to go chasing around to find a substitute and test all over again. Worse is when a particular powder lot dries up and you're in the middle of a competition season! You learn to work the variables in order to achieve the results you desire.

Regards.

 

[MagnumManiac]

smithjasona1978,

I have to ask...

If the outside dimensions of a case have to remain the same to meet SAAMI specifications and you make the internal walls of that case thinner, how much do you really think you gain? One grain, maybe two grains? It can't be that much and the increased velocity from that little increase in capacity will be minuscule if you increase the charge. Otherwise as stated, the pressure goes down.

This is not like making the outside of a case 'improved' like in the Ackley form where the gain of interior volume can be significant when compared to this.

Regards.

There is around 9gr's difference in both the 300WM/7mmRM and 300Weatherby between brass brand capacities from lowest to highest.
So, your theory of a couple of grains is WAY OFF. This is enough of a difference to blow a gun apart if one case is substituted for the other WITHOUT adjusting the powder charge.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[sable tireur]

There is around 9gr's difference in both the 300WM/7mmRM and 300Weatherby between brass brand capacities from lowest to highest.
So, your theory of a couple of grains is WAY OFF. This is enough of a difference to blow a gun apart if one case is substituted for the other WITHOUT adjusting the powder charge.

Cheers.
gun)

MM,

I suggest revisiting the first post by the OP in order to understand that he was asking about the .300 Weatherby Magnum cases only. This does not have anything to do with either the .300 Win Mag. or the 7mm Rem. Mag. So chastising me about the size of the variance is an exaggeration in the first place. You have created a problem that doesn't exist. He was asking about the difference between case capacity of only the .300 Weatherby Mag. cases.

Here is the original post by '257 Weatherby' on Weatherby Nation from the question by 'smithjasona1978':

My records show case capacity with the R-P cases at 101.8 grains and the Weatherby/ Norma at 106.3. This is full to the top of the neck which is the only way for the average person to compare. Please note, this is an average of 5 cases of each brand. I check volume with cases fired in one specific rifle. Sized case volume will diminish slightly. I use a ball powder that I won't disclose as it is irrelevant, as a medium. I do this because the ball powder completely vacates the cases as opposed to water that can leave droplets. This gives a direct comparison of internal case volume.

So, if you do the subtraction, the capacity difference is 4.5 grains or 1/2 of what you stated above.

The other point to make is that 'smithjasona1978' is at the beginning of a new reloading program, not in the middle or at the end using already established loads with accuracy nodes. He hasn't established anything yet but as a good, cautious reloader he is asking first for guidance before starting his reloading and testing.

Now, in my original short post, I was hypothesizing about the change in capacity. I didn't feel the need for getting out a bunch of my brass and doing water capacity measurements to make exacting comments. I did not take into account that Norma would thin the head (stupid IMO) of these cases in order either save on material or gain capacity. That's why I originally suggest that the difference would be only a couple of grains.

So in essence, because the OP is at the very beginning, without even having started his testing, there is no danger of blowing up cases or damaging rifles which you two have tried to make a case for. He has been apprised of the existing situation with the capacity variables so he can proceed safely and carefully.

Regards.

 

[J E Custom]

The first thing I will comment on is the case capacity difference. All different brands of cases have different case capacities. Even different lots of the same brand can be different. when checking case volumes on lot matched cases it is not unusual to find volumes slightly different, and for accuracy testing I separate cases that match volumes out and load them for best accuracy of a rifle. when loading these loads I also check them for run out and use only the best for the final group test proving that every difference can make a difference in the accuracy potential of a rifle.

WHEN CHANGING ANY COMPONANT, it is recommended that loads are reduced and worked up.
different case capacities can/will cause a change in pressure and/or velocity.

Different case capacities may have an effect on accuracy because one case and powder combination may be closer to what the rifle prefers.

My recommendation Is to buy the cases that give the best life and try to find them in the same lot.
work up a load that suites your accuracy needs and don't worry about the velocity as long as it is below but not over Max.

For years Norma has made the brass for Weatherby and it holds up well if treated well. Don't try to match factory velocities because in many cartridges the factory uses proprietary powders that we cant get. I have many Weatherby chambered rifles and they are all different. so Load for best results with the rifle with the brass you want to use and be happy. Someone will always come up with a Mach 10 velocity and you just have to ignore it and get the best load for your rifle. Chasing someone's else's mystical velocity is foolish and will only cause the re loader grief.

One other thing while on the subject of case volume, Different chambers in the same cartridge can hold different powder capacities also (Not buy much but still different) so in a really tight chamber
the thinner brass may not hold any more powder that a thicker case in a loose chamber and velocity could be the same under these conditions.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Mikecr]

sable tireur, it was you who came up with the 126f/s, and also implied this as insignificant.

In my experience, with my cartridges, nodes are pretty well established,, and 126f/s from target could be a significant problem to overcome. This, whether faster or slower than target, or from powder, or case capacity, or barrel, or bullet.
I know it happens, it's common, it does not mean it doesn't matter. A component change that shifted things so much for me, would matter.

That's my only contention in this.