Do You Have a Responsibility To Fight?

[bigbuck]

Reading stuff like this really gets me. I've grown up with firearms all my life. I was probably reloading by the age of 16. Took my first deer at 12. Raised in a rural setting in a devoutly Christian family. Now I see all this crap going on.

I served 4 years in the Army with one year in Iraq. I never knew how I would react if the time came to really mix it up. The chances weren't good I mean I was a communications guy. I don't mind honestly admitting that I feared every day that today might be the day I might be required to take a life. Didn't like living that way and I left. I wasn't gonna be the guy that hung for a split second and got somebody hurt. I thought at the time that maybe that made me a bad soldier or a bad person feeling that conflicted. I realize now that really isn't the case. Everyone has that inner limit and I was finding mine. To this day I serve this country as a defense contractor still doing my little part to make us safer. I may have stunk as the movie poster soldier but I still take that oath to heart.

Somehow in the current climate I get those hairs standing up on the back of my neck again. I got used to being mortared pretty much everyday and really was never that upset with it. It was expected. (On a lighter note I swear they do actually whistle when they go over.) What is happening here isn't something that I expected. It isn't happening half way across the world on someone else's land. It's here. It's at my backdoor.

Some of you don't have a background similar to mine but I'd bank that quite a few do. It is getting serious in a lot of ways. Just take a look at Colorado in the past month. We have a senate who openly says they know the voters don't want any more gun control and passes it anyway. (Sen. John Morse on The Rachel Maddow Show - YouTube) You gotta wonder how far this stuff will go. I really hope with all the vets around and the experience out there no one gets stupid but it is indeed a sad time. A lot of questions are going to get answered in the next few years. I just pray common sense and logic eventually prevail but I fear there is chance that won't be the case. Time to think deep guys.

If civil war was to brake out in America, weapons and ammo would flow to use from every country we have ever wronged! They all want to see us fail and will do nothing short of supporting us killing each other. There are 21.5 million vets in the US and I'm betting 10 times that number or patriots who will not stand for any of this when push comes to shove.

Thank you for your service rinodods! No one really knows how they would handle it until they have walked in your shoes... I appreciate your service.

ICANHITHIMMAN, I agree with you , my gut feeling tells me that China, North Korea and Russia is setting back just waiting for the perfect time to nock our jaw off, so to speak. When the Clintons had the rains our military was depleted to a minimun and Obama is ruinung our country . It is almost as if he is oblivious to the threats that stand at our door.

 

[rinodods]

Nothing will come of this. It just isn't feasible. Pelosi, Bloomberg and any cracked out politician that wants to disarm Americans will find nobody to do their bidding. Being l.e. I can tell ya we've debated about this heavily. None of us (midwest-you know we love our guns) would be forced to enforce an unconstitutional law. About half of us 800,000 uniformed officers in this nation are former military as well. So don't throw around the term government and lump us officers that uphold the law in that mix. I also have a hard time believing our own military would follow these orders.
It is an impossible war.
So that leaves an outside entity to do their bidding. Good luck with that.

Let's just be clear of who is the problem here. I am seeing a lot of blurring of the lines between paranoids and true Americans and people straight threatening law enforcement officers as if we are the enemy. Claiming we are militarizing our force for gun grabbing. Our equipment (armor, rifles, bearcat vehicles are entirely reactive to needs and threats to us and innocents). There is zero chance any local, county or state agency would be involved in this nonsense. If you read about a police department chief, sheriff or similar...remember they are appointed and elected and only worry about their own livelihood. You want a real answer? Ask a cop off duty and not jamming a camera in their face at their station to put on YouTube. Policy does not allow for a lot of opinion on things.

Rest assured I and my brother and sister officers who believe in our nation and our profession would toss that badge and gun back at anyone who orders us to go against the constitution.

I think you've probably got it right. Those in your profession that seem to support this stuff really get pushed in front of the camera. Kinda make it look one sided when it is really anything but. Colorado is probably a good example with the police chief of Denver promoting all these new bans and claiming those like him statewide think the same. All the while you have nearly every county Sheriff and their organization at the debates on this stuff saying no and vowing not to enforce. The old political appointed position vs elected. Of course we also have half our state government openly saying they will not honor, enforce of obey any of this. It is quite the show.

 

[aviatrix]

Constitutional Sheriffs' and Peace Officers Association

Growing List of Sheriffs, Associations and Police Chiefs Saying 'NO' to Obama Gun Control | CSPOA - Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association

There will be Patriot Posses

and there will be Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers » Blog Archive » Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey

 

[Wile E Coyote]

If civil war was to brake out in America, weapons and ammo would flow to use from every country we have ever wronged! They all want to see us fail and will do nothing short of supporting us killing each other. There are 21.5 million vets in the US and I'm betting 10 times that number or patriots who will not stand for any of this when push comes to shove.

+1 on the Vets and Patriots.

 

[rdsii64]

Praise the lord and pass the ammo

 

[aviatrix]

I hand the following out on business cards printed on both sides. I hope I've encourged more than a few that have never sworn to do so and those that have in the past to renew.

"…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

To stand and fight, against all that oppress or attack, is an inherent human right that transcends any law written by man – this is what the Second Amendment proclaims, as a reminder to the individual of his or her birthright and as warning and epitaph to those who would attempt to act or govern without regard for that birthright.

The politician that says different is a tyrant in the making and sooner or later intends to be your master, the fool that agrees with him or her is begging to be made a slave.

The Constitution can only protect you and yours - if you protect it. Freedom isn't free, if you don't stand and fight now - your country, your children's future and your Constitution are forever lost.

I, ____________ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, pledging my life, my fortune, and my sacred honor. So help me, God.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Nothing will come of this. It just isn't feasible. Pelosi, Bloomberg and any cracked out politician that wants to disarm Americans will find nobody to do their bidding. Being l.e. I can tell ya we've debated about this heavily. None of us (midwest-you know we love our guns) would be forced to enforce an unconstitutional law. About half of us 800,000 uniformed officers in this nation are former military as well. So don't throw around the term government and lump us officers that uphold the law in that mix. I also have a hard time believing our own military would follow these orders.
It is an impossible war.
So that leaves an outside entity to do their bidding. Good luck with that.

Let's just be clear of who is the problem here. I am seeing a lot of blurring of the lines between paranoids and true Americans and people straight threatening law enforcement officers as if we are the enemy. Claiming we are militarizing our force for gun grabbing. Our equipment (armor, rifles, bearcat vehicles are entirely reactive to needs and threats to us and innocents). There is zero chance any local, county or state agency would be involved in this nonsense. If you read about a police department chief, sheriff or similar...remember they are appointed and elected and only worry about their own livelihood. You want a real answer? Ask a cop off duty and not jamming a camera in their face at their station to put on YouTube. Policy does not allow for a lot of opinion on things.

Rest assured I and my brother and sister officers who believe in our nation and our profession would toss that badge and gun back at anyone who orders us to go against the constitution.

Lets dissect this a bit more......

First off. lets go back to Hurricane Katrina. When martial law was declared, who rounded up the firearms from the citizens besides the military and National guard troops?? ...and sometimes with undue force as has been well documented on U-Tube and elsewhere.

Secondly, under the Patriot Act, foreign troops as well as the US military can be ordered to fire on US Citizens, at that point who obeys and who deserts will be on an individual basis only.

Thirdly, Foreign troops (mainly UN Peacekeepers have been training alongside US troops in exercises on domestic soil for a number of years to familiarize them with our country and topography. Thats a well known fact.

I understand your position, however, don't put forth a blanket statement that no individual in LE or the military will desert because thats not a true statement, and no, I'm not assured of anything. If the time comes, some will and some won't. Direlection of duty or disobeying a direct order or directive is punishable by dismissal in the case of LE and courts martial and even execution by the military.

Lets hope and pray it don't come to that, but at that juncture it will be on an individual basis andonly on an individual basis.

 

[aviatrix]

sidecar

My understanding and I might be wrong, is that National Guard from Utah refused to disarm civilians in New Orleans.

If so, then they and Utah sheriffs are cut from the same cloth.

http://www.utahsheriffs.org/USA-Home_files/2nd Amendment Letter_1.pdf

 

[TheNiner]

I cannot begin to understand what happened and what truly went down after Katrina. Getting information from YouTube and your local biased news organization can be bad for your health. Often times videos are edited and put forth in a manner to sway public opinion against one group or another. Since the military has been glorified in the last several years(and rightfully so), that leaves the police as a target for blame. The actions of few do not taint the large and majority percentage of honorable officers . I cannot attest to specifics as I am so far away and don't really know the truth of orders and ramificafions involved. So I won't and can't form an opinion on the subject.

To me it seems like a lot of people are spoiling for a fight and simply looking for a target. I simply believe it is a fight that isn't gonna happen. Ali vs Tyson-same thing. I just don't see the players being brought in quiet enough and arming/ training and financing a domestic war. The police are hardly able to be the front line on such and endeavor. The military simply has other obligations and technology alone doesn't win a war. Boots in the ground is inevitable. Who would those be? The U.N.? Really ? I cannot see who would sign their force up to take on the U.S. civilian population. We aren't Israel where all have prior military service but its a huge undertaking. Too many people across this nation to deal with.

I am very disappointed in these public officials in Colorado , new York etc as well. These laws are insane. But don't allow the criminals in the shadows to join your cause and dilute your agenda. Most people who want to protect the 2nd and all other amendments of the constitution are law abiding good citizens. There are those that want Armageddon to happen to have an excuse to live out some fantasy. Focus your anger on the people trying to enact the laws. This anti l.e. crap is getting old.
We still have the best nation in the world. Let's not hurry up and start living like animals .
Share your shooting and hunting traditions with your children and keep the legacy going.
I am not giving up any of my guns, and I wouldn't expect you to either. But if someone comes for your guns(whoever that is) will be coming for mine too. And I don't think its going to be able to happen. Unless of course, the U.N. you speak of can come in the night with a tactical response/swat team for each of our houses. That would equate to a coordinated attack of something the world has never seen. The word would spread and people would hide. It would be a huge flop.
There isn't enough war fighters in this hemisphere to take that project on.
The only thing I realistically see happening is mandatory registration and turning in of weapons deemed illegal or face fines/penalties. That's still inneffective.... can you imagine how many weapons would be reported stolen and go missing?
There is no war to fight people . Occupying the U.S. is an unwinnable war. Concentrate on what you can do in your area with education of these nimrod politicians trying to take away OUR rights to bear arms. And calm your irrational fear of enslavement . It ain't happening.
Take your kids hunting.
I'm done rambling.

 

[bigbuck]

TheNiner, You make some good points but I cannot agree with them all.

"Who would sign sign there force up to take on the US. = Obama would sign this over to possibly the U.N. (He is not for our country)

"It aint happening" With this mindset it very well could "If" everyone thought this way.

Not being smart or rude but have you ever seen a time that our states where so divided ? Our Police officers coming out and saying they will not support our president ?

I would say wake up America . Before you loose every right that you have !

 

[TheNiner]

No problem. Debate is good. Maybe we can fix our issues if we figure something out.
You are correct where the states are very divided because of our leadership (or lack thereof). I just have some beliefs (maybe hope) that my brothers and sisters in military/l.e. will not blindly follow orders that most of believe to be illegal. We don't have to.
It makes me cringe anytime a law enforcement figurehead makes ANY kind of stance on anything other than public safety. Let's not kid ourselves...this is about political posturing. Luckily my dept. Has intelligently steered well clear of this issue.
We are for the people....because we are the people. I think it can't happen simply based on logistics. I do not put it past any of these politicians to at least try...but based on their flawed sense of duty, honor and lack of knowledge, I simply don't see them having even 1/3 support to do their evil little bidding.
I don't take offense to a healthy debate. I encourage it. I just have an issue with punks and criminals trying to hide behind the group of patriots/oath upholders/ law abiding/ good all American people slinging hollow threats at law enforcement to get even for a traffic ticket 20 years ago (see YouTube).
I belong to this forum for the knowledge of better hunters/shooters than me with experience to shareand learn from.
Debate is good.
I hope this whole time period is just a minor bump we remember years from now...because it is beyond silly right now. Keep the faith. This too shall pass.

 

[bigbuck]

The Niner,

Are you an officer ? If so I want to thank you for your service Sir.

 

[TheNiner]

Yes. I am a uniformed 'road' officer of a large dept. And I thank you for your support.

Now I'm off to go get my turkey hunting stuff together. I'm bringing a Iraq veteran turkey hunting his first time this spring. We're both pumped for it.

Cheers

 

[rick523]

Niner, what part of mid-west you from. I'm in Indiana as you can see, our turkey season draws near also, and thanks for your service as well. Good luck with your hunt.
Rick