Do I really need a 300 WM?

[MudRunner2005]

i don't believe he reloads.

Unless we're talking about a custom .308 Win with Hornady TAP (LE - red box) 168 BTHP's, I don't trust factory loads beyond 500 yards. No matter WHAT rifle. Only reason I trust those Hornadys is because they've shot good in EVERY .308 I've ever put them through, even out to distances of 750+.

Unfortunately most folks can't get LE ammo, so that most-likely eliminates that solution to his problem.

However, the awesome thing about most all Ackley Improved chamberings is that you can shoot factory ammo in them and fire-form brass. In a custom rifle, you should still get MOA accuracy out of factory rounds that haven't been formed yet. And out to 500 yards, that's only 5" groups, which is more than capable of killng any medium-to-large game.

When I was fire-forming brass for my .25-06 AI with Nosler 85 BT's, I was getting fairly consistent 1/2-3/4 MOA groups out of un-formed brass that was still for factory chamberings. My .30-06 AI was the same way, and so was my .300 Ackley Mag.

 

[jrock]

If the minimum number for expansion is 1,300 fps, then my load in my .30-06 AI will allow me to reach between 1175 and 1200 yards. At 1175 yards, I'm right at 1311 fps & 707 fpe. And at 1200 yards, I'm at 1289 fps & 683 fpe.

This is with a .30-06 AI w/ a 26" 1:12 barrel, pushing a Berger 185 VLD around 2,861 fps MV.

I like your set up.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I like your set up.

You'd like the whole rifle setup, too... It's light enough you could backpack with it and not strain, yet able to reach way out there accurately, thanks to the 26" heavy barrel.

It looks like a factory rifle, but it's a custom build, I can assure you. I haven't gotten my load 100% dialed-in yet, but I'm hovering between 61-62gr of IMR 7828 SSC powder, and at 62gr, according to Quickload with my rifle's specs, should net me 2,861 fps MV.

I'd bet that the whole gun/scope combo probably weighs 10 lbs.

 

[jrock]

You'd like the whole rifle setup, too... It's light enough you could backpack with it and not strain, yet able to reach way out there accurately, thanks to the 26" heavy barrel.

It looks like a factory rifle, but it's a custom build, I can assure you. I haven't gotten my load 100% dialed-in yet, but I'm hovering between 61-62gr of IMR 7828 SSC powder, and at 62gr, according to Quickload with my rifle's specs, should net me 2,861 fps MV.

I'd bet that the whole gun/scope combo probably weighs 10 lbs.

That is what my 7mm RM will look like when I wear out the factory barrel. Right down to the bolt handle. Perfect gun for the OP.

 

[LeddSlinger]

You'd like the whole rifle setup, too... It's light enough you could backpack with it and not strain, yet able to reach way out there accurately, thanks to the 26" heavy barrel.

It looks like a factory rifle, but it's a custom build, I can assure you. I haven't gotten my load 100% dialed-in yet, but I'm hovering between 61-62gr of IMR 7828 SSC powder, and at 62gr, according to Quickload with my rifle's specs, should net me 2,861 fps MV.

So then you haven't chronographed it yet? Quickload doesn't really mean anything. I've had the same exact hand loads in the same calibers go 150 fps in two different rifles with the same barrel length. You just don't know til you let bullets fly across those two little photo eyes hooked up to a timer. 3861 fps with a 185gr from anything based on the 30-06 case is a stout assumption of speed to say the least. So I see no relevance in your calculated long range velocity or energy until the speeds are proven.

I remember my father thinking he was pushing his bullets 200 fps faster than the manual listed because he was 3gr over max charge. Well when I chronographed his load for him, that assumed 3300 fps was actually only 3060 fps. He wasn't getting a complete powder burn. And the funniest thing was that the max charge in the manual said he'd be going 3100 fps with 3gr less. He wasn't even doing that! so you see my point I'm sure...

Not trying to offend you at all, as you seem to want to help everyone on here, but I believe advice and data intended to help others is best served based on proven facts, not assumptions of possibilities.

PS: That ought to make a really nice hunting rifle

 

[MudRunner2005]

So then you haven't chronographed it yet? Quickload doesn't really mean anything. I've had the same exact hand loads in the same calibers go 150 fps in two different rifles with the same barrel length. You just don't know til you let bullets fly across those two little photo eyes hooked up to a timer. 3861 fps with a 185gr from anything based on the 30-06 case is a stout assumption of speed to say the least. So I see no relevance in your calculated long range velocity or energy until the speeds are proven.

I remember my father thinking he was pushing his bullets 200 fps faster than the manual listed because he was 3gr over max charge. Well when I chronographed his load for him, that assumed 3300 fps was actually only 3060 fps. He wasn't getting a complete powder burn. And the funniest thing was that the max charge in the manual said he'd be going 3100 fps with 3gr less. He wasn't even doing that! so you see my point I'm sure...

Not trying to offend you at all, as you seem to want to help everyone on here, but I believe advice and data intended to help others is best served based on proven facts, not assumptions of possibilities.

PS: That ought to make a really nice hunting rifle

I said 2,861, not 3,861... That would be obsurd. I have not hooked my MSV2 onto it yet, but might do it this weekend if I'm off on Friday.

Powder burn is supposed to be 97.1%, if i remember correctly, so I'm not lacking much from a complete burn.

I do understand facts are facts, which I will have soon, once I get this load developed. 2,861 is pretty feasible. It's a 106% load compression.

 

[LeddSlinger]

Sorry. I meant 2861 fps. Typo.

Even if that speed was possible, another unknown factor is whether or not a person may have to sacrifice accuracy to achieve that speed? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Then again, maybe it will be most accurate at max loads. Don't know.

I do know for a fact that speed is not everything. I can push the 250gr Berger VLD in my 338-375 Ruger at over 3000 fps from my 26" Brux barrel, but I found the best accuracy at 2925 fps so that's where I left it. Regardless of being 100 fps under it's potential, it hammers the hell out of game.

I hope your load does turn out like you plan and would be interested in your data once it is discovered.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Sorry. I meant 2861 fps. Typo.

Even if that speed was possible, another unknown factor is whether or not a person may have to sacrifice accuracy to achieve that speed? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Then again, maybe it will be most accurate at max loads. Don't know.

I do know for a fact that speed is not everything. I can push the 250gr Berger VLD in my 338-375 Ruger at over 3000 fps from my 26" Brux barrel, but I found the best accuracy at 2925 fps so that's where I left it. Regardless of being 100 fps under it's potential, it hammers the hell out of game.

I hope your load does turn out like you plan and would be interested in your data once it is discovered.

Trust me man...I'm not new to this stuff. I know not every gun will shoot best at mad loads. But thanks for the interest.

I am hoping it will find a nice node around 61.5-62.0 grains so I can retain that good velocity. Hoping my barrel will be a fast one. I had the smith hand lap it, so it should be nice and smooth.

I will keep yall updated on the velocity.

 

[LeddSlinger]

Your smith lapped the barrel? What kind of barrel is on it?

 

[Kennibear]

Mudrunner

Like the DNZ's. I gravitate to one piece mounts because less parts = less to go wrong.

Having worked with a number of 30/06's including my own 27" button rifled barrel M98, I would hazard a guess of just north of 2900fps for your load. I'm not a computer but that should be close.

Question: How many center fire rifles do you buy before you start to reload?

Answer: One.

KB

 

[Full Auto]

OMG not sure when the 300WM became the brute it is claimed to be. I enjoy shooting my 300 WM,300 Weather by mag, and 300 HH mag. So my vote is for 300.gun)

 

[MudRunner2005]

Your smith lapped the barrel? What kind of barrel is on it?

A worked-over factory Remington 700 Varmint 1:12 .308 Win barrel, that had the chamber opened up to .30-06 AI. Shoulder was trued, lug was surfaced, threads chased, bore lapped, re-centered & re-crowned with a recessed target crown, and then re-fitted to a fully trued & worked 700 action.

My fire-forming loads were shooting 5/8 to 1 MOA (varied) @ 100, and they were just thrown-together, powder dumped, lightly-charged, and cheap bullets at a random seating depth... Can't wait to see what it will do with some velocity behind those Bergers and my precison loads.

Don't knock worked-over factory Remington barrels...With an experienced smith knowing the secrets to getting them to shoot, they are an inexpensive option compared to a custom barrel.

I have several worked and factory untouched Rem heavy barrels that will shoot in sub-.250" group range with handloads.

My factory Rem 700 5R .308 will shoot consistant .300-.350" groups with my 210 Berger VLD load.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mudrunner

Like the DNZ's. I gravitate to one piece mounts because less parts = less to go wrong.

Having worked with a number of 30/06's including my own 27" button rifled barrel M98, I would hazard a guess of just north of 2900fps for your load. I'm not a computer but that should be close.

Question: How many center fire rifles do you buy before you start to reload?

Answer: One.

KB

Thanks Ken! The DNZ's are great for a lightweight or hunting rig. I've enjoyed it thoroughly. All my other rifles have EGW rails on them, but for some reason I always keep that DNZ mount nearby. LOL

Also, your confidence in velocity guess is right where I am hoping to be. I want to be as close to 2900 as I can. If that's the case, then my rifle, will actually be a formidable opponent to my buddy's .300 WinMag. I think between 2850-3000 was where his shot the best.

If so, that means I'm using 10 less grains and nipping right at a .300 WM's heels... That's not gonna be something the .300 WM crowd is gonna wanna hear. LOL

I bet I catch so much crap for that comment. LMFAO

 

[LeddSlinger]

Did I say anything bad about factory barrels??? I don't recall "knocking" anything...
Simply curious as to why a "custom rifle" had to have its barrel lapped.

Actually one of the best shooting barrels I own is a stainless Remington VSSF II take off chambered for 204 ruger that I put on a trued 700 SPS action. It's not technically a custom rifle, more of a re-worked factory job, but I guarantee it will shoot as good or better than any varmint rifle anyone on this forum can muster up. Hole, in a hole, in a hole. Shoots as good as any custom I've ever built. Paid $150 for it used with 100 rounds down the tube. I can't for the life of me figure out how someone would have ever wanted to get rid of it? But it's mine now