dilemma: Need Info Prior to Decision

[alcesgigas]

I've developed a fondness for this site; its become my "breakfast non-edible repast" and I'd like to get educated some more along the following lines:

I have a M70 Stainless Classic in 375 H&H early nineties production. I "re-floated" the barrel, inserted an 11 ounce mercury recoil suppressor in the butt stock, adjusted the trigger to three and a half pounds and re-bedded the action using Brownell's stainless steel [epoxy] bed. For sights I put a red linear "glower" front, Leupold detachable rings & base holding a Leupold VIII 1.5-5 with Butler Creek modified snap caps over ocular and objective lenses. It has a Hunter sling on my own rings. It weighs 10.5# loaded with three cartridges and the recoil is about like that of my 270 M70. It shoots a little less than two inch groups with my hand loads (270 gr. Barnes w/IMR 4320) averaging five reloads before the case begins to split. I carry this rifle on my boat when it's not on my back excepting between October and May first or so; I live in Arctic Alaska and, yes, I've had to use it. That's why I have it. However, I carry it these days no more than seven tenths of a mile. Don't ask. Its been on the Discovery Channel in Alaska Most Extreme concerning a bear in a cabin and yours truly. So its had its fifteen minutes as have I--whom is on the wrong side of 65.

I'm either going to sell this rifle or convert it to a LRH; I'm undecided. Let's get a discussion going to widen my horizons so to speak: To Sell or To Rebuild? (There are some fundamental rigidities so to speak: the only action I'd use is M70 CRF and if I do sell I'll be chatting with MRC about one of their largest PH in SS. Twenty pounds or so would be ideal with say a 28" heavy w/Muscle #4 brake and retaining that mercury suppressor for sure. And no belted brass--please!)

 

[WildRose]

I've developed a fondness for this site; its become my "breakfast non-edible repast" and I'd like to get educated some more along the following lines:

I have a M70 Stainless Classic in 375 H&H early nineties production. I "re-floated" the barrel, inserted an 11 ounce mercury recoil suppressor in the butt stock, adjusted the trigger to three and a half pounds and re-bedded the action using Brownell's stainless steel [epoxy] bed. For sights I put a red linear "glower" front, Leupold detachable rings & base holding a Leupold VIII 1.5-5 with Butler Creek modified snap caps over ocular and objective lenses. It has a Hunter sling on my own rings. It weighs 10.5# loaded with three cartridges and the recoil is about like that of my 270 M70. It shoots a little less than two inch groups with my hand loads (270 gr. Barnes w/IMR 4320) averaging five reloads before the case begins to split. I carry this rifle on my boat when it's not on my back excepting between October and May first or so; I live in Arctic Alaska and, yes, I've had to use it. That's why I have it. However, I carry it these days no more than seven tenths of a mile. Don't ask. Its been on the Discovery Channel in Alaska Most Extreme concerning a bear in a cabin and yours truly. So its had its fifteen minutes as have I--whom is on the wrong side of 65.

I'm either going to sell this rifle or convert it to a LRH; I'm undecided. Let's get a discussion going to widen my horizons so to speak: To Sell or To Rebuild? (There are some fundamental rigidities so to speak: the only action I'd use is M70 CRF and if I do sell I'll be chatting with MRC about one of their largest PH in SS. Twenty pounds or so would be ideal with say a 28" heavy w/Muscle #4 brake and retaining that mercury suppressor for sure. And no belted brass--please!)

Considering it's the only action you want to mess with and the memories you have with this gun I'd say stay with what you have and love and build a 338, 300, or 7mm Rum, or one of the other 338's.

Might as well have everything you want in the package you are already in love with.

My leaning would be towards the 300 Rum unless you PLAN on going after the big bears with it.

 

[alcesgigas]

Thank you; no doubt the reason (s) for dilemma, and I am considering the 300RUM and the 300LM, but then there's those pesky Allen magnums to contemplate...

The only reason I must consider selling the 375 is one of conscience--and longevity. It's easier to get away with a build if I really need it or look, I don't have the big gun anymore and You know how that pre-war M70 270 kicks. I could always win her over with, "I'll carry it myself..." And, if necessary, more hyperbole, ranting, begging, etc., for the treasurer's approval. See my wife takes on a sunburned color when I mention rifles...

 

[WildRose]

Thank you; no doubt the reason (s) for dilemma, and I am considering the 300RUM and the 300LM, but then there's those pesky Allen magnums to contemplate...

The only reason I must consider selling the 375 is one of conscience--and longevity. It's easier to get away with a build if I really need it or look, I don't have the big gun anymore and You know how that pre-war M70 270 kicks. I could always win her over with, "I'll carry it myself..." And, if necessary, more hyperbole, ranting, begging, etc., for the treasurer's approval. See my wife takes on a sunburned color when I mention rifles...

"Honey this barrel is pretty well shot out and if I rebarrel it in 300Rum with a good muzzle brake I'll bet you'll have fun shooting it too"... .lightbulb

 

[MT4XFore]

You might want to consider those other "pesky" calibers that APS is starting to make as well: The Allen Raptor series. They kinda fall in between the Xpresses and the Magnums. He does have some rather neuveaux ideas!!

 

[Boss Hoss]

If I were in your situation and I have shot them or variants of them for many years it would be the 338 Lapua.

 

[alcesgigas]

You could be right WildRose. I can her response, "Yeah, at you." Actually she's always been supportive or my ideas, most of the time--how about neutral? Sometimes?

I should have mentioned: There's a lake that I shot a few moose on that offers shots in excess of sensibility. So, of course this is what prompts me to fantasize about sleeping one up to, say, a mile, but that's not likely to happen on my present M70's action. And I'd want the rifle to weigh in over 50# because 50BMG & variants, 408CheyTac & variants shoot out both ends quite noticeably. I get there by boat then drag a canoe 200' to the lake. So a laptop, GPS, spotting scope, bench and rifle is doable. It's surely a diversion!

I'd really have to work up to shots over 600 yards, but I do have places to do that. Could the 375 be re-barreled to what LR caliber?

 

[bogger01]

i think the winchester m70 is a great action to build off of. i don't think it has the ammount of accessories that the remington 700 has but it has enough to make a fine hunting rifle that will give great accuracy.i just built a 338 edge and love it but it might not be something that you want to fool with as far as reloading and recoil.any of the ultra mags and their variations will suit you just fine.also,building a rifle isn't the same as buying a new one so it's easier to get away with it when it comes to the misses.

 

[WildRose]

You could be right WildRose. I can her response, "Yeah, at you." Actually she's always been supportive or my ideas, most of the time--how about neutral? Sometimes?

I should have mentioned: There's a lake that I shot a few moose on that offers shots in excess of sensibility. So, of course this is what prompts me to fantasize about sleeping one up to, say, a mile, but that's not likely to happen on my present M70's action. And I'd want the rifle to weigh in over 50# because 50BMG & variants, 408CheyTac & variants shoot out both ends quite noticeably. I get there by boat then drag a canoe 200' to the lake. So a laptop, GPS, spotting scope, bench and rifle is doable. It's surely a diversion!

I'd really have to work up to shots over 600 yards, but I do have places to do that. Could the 375 be re-barreled to what LR caliber?

If/when you want to step up to the mile and beyond shots the .375 Cheytac is what you want. It's still supersonic beyond 2000m's.

I'm not a gun smith but maybe one will chime in. Off the top of my head I'd guess that the .375 should be fine for anything from the 300 or 7mm Rum up through the 338 RUM, and maybe some of the other bigger .338 wildcats.

It's a long action with a magnum bolt face so that action and bolt should work with most of them just fine.

 

[alcesgigas]

Bogger1 & WildRose:
Is that Edge one of Kirby's (Allen?) family of fast shooters? I'm assuming that you made up your Edge on a M70? I don't know why I didn't think of your domestic policy as I did the very thing when I built up a super-accurate 10/22 a couple years ago! Both of you are seeing as have in this thing; bottom of 30 cal, but best 33 to 375. I can sort of tame recoil with weight in that barrel and I'm still amazed at how that 11 ounce slug of mercury suppresses excesses... I buy components, not cartriges--excepting of course, the 22 and the few 3" magnum shotshells for my M12, so reloading goes hand in hand--just like a scope--with any rifle I own.

One of the reasons I've leaned toward the Lapua is the quality of their brass; how's the CheyTac brass availability? Doesn't the Chey out shoot the 50BMG after, say, 1200 yards? And what about that 416/50BMG? Seems like I read an article on that one on this site.

I'm enjoying this!

 

[WildRose]

Bogger1 & WildRose:
Is that Edge one of Kirby's (Allen?) family of fast shooters? I'm assuming that you made up your Edge on a M70? I don't know why I didn't think of your domestic policy as I did the very thing when I built up a super-accurate 10/22 a couple years ago! Both of you are seeing as have in this thing; bottom of 30 cal, but best 33 to 375. I can sort of tame recoil with weight in that barrel and I'm still amazed at how that 11 ounce slug of mercury suppresses excesses... I buy components, not cartriges--excepting of course, the 22 and the few 3" magnum shotshells for my M12, so reloading goes hand in hand--just like a scope--with any rifle I own.

One of the reasons I've leaned toward the Lapua is the quality of their brass; how's the CheyTac brass availability? Doesn't the Chey out shoot the 50BMG after, say, 1200 yards? And what about that 416/50BMG? Seems like I read an article on that one on this site.

I'm enjoying this!

The .375 and .408 will out perform both the .416 and 50 bmg ballistically.

Unless your figuring light armored vehicles into the mix and the ability to shoot through a V8 engine block at 1500m's that is.

Jamison will be producing Cheytac brass for a very long time.

I'm really expecting to see the cult of extreme long range shooters eventually figure out just what a phenomenal round the .375 Cheytac is at some point and it will really take off.

The only problem with it right now is the limited availability and expense of the bullets..

When you get to the edge and 338 Laupuas I'm not sure your action is adequate but it certainly iss for the others.

Again, maybe one of the gunsmith's will chime in on that one and give you some better information than I can.

Try looking at some of these videos.





[ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xaa7vn_must-see-future-weapons-new-cheytac_tech"]MUST SEE - Future Weapons, NEW CheyTac M200 Sniper System - Dailymotion video[/ame]




You'll see just what the .375 and .408 Cheytac are capable of.

 

[bogger01]

no,the 338 edge is based on the 300 ultramag necked up to a 338 caliber.shawn carlock from defensive edge is noted for making that round so successful.it is a very versatile round.i built mine on a savage just because thats what i had.ads far as the chey-tac rounds are concerned all of the calibers out of that case are going to fly for a long ways and be accurate doing it.there was a question on here not to long ago on brass availability.i will post the link to the thread.with the chey-tacs come the cost and your going to need a custom action.on a side note,the 338 edge does have a fault.the overall length of the cartridge is longer than the lapua so a lot of the times you can only single feed the round.mine is a repeater when i use the 250grain smk's but the 300 grainers are single feed and i have the cip length accuracy international mags.the lapua does have very good brass so that might be a good choice as well.this is a pic and parts list of my 338 edge.http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f93/xlr-industries-evolution-chassis-system-review-74002/

cheytac brass supply http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/cheytac-brass-shortage-75555/

Bogger1 & WildRose:
Is that Edge one of Kirby's (Allen?) family of fast shooters? I'm assuming that you made up your Edge on a M70? I don't know why I didn't think of your domestic policy as I did the very thing when I built up a super-accurate 10/22 a couple years ago! Both of you are seeing as have in this thing; bottom of 30 cal, but best 33 to 375. I can sort of tame recoil with weight in that barrel and I'm still amazed at how that 11 ounce slug of mercury suppresses excesses... I buy components, not cartriges--excepting of course, the 22 and the few 3" magnum shotshells for my M12, so reloading goes hand in hand--just like a scope--with any rifle I own.

One of the reasons I've leaned toward the Lapua is the quality of their brass; how's the CheyTac brass availability? Doesn't the Chey out shoot the 50BMG after, say, 1200 yards? And what about that 416/50BMG? Seems like I read an article on that one on this site.

I'm enjoying this!

 

[sp6x6]

Here are some notes I had on some of the AM MAGS in 338. 338 Allen Express- 338 Lapua fireformed to Allen shoulder, 300 SMK 2850-2950. 338 Allen Magnum-408 Cheytec case, 300 SMK 3300-3400 . tHIS ONE i MIGHT BE A LITTLE FUZZY on think it is the Raptor 338 on x-caliber brass, sized inbetween last 2, 300 SMK @ 3200, THAT ONE, would be my pick in a full custom

 

[alcesgigas]

Thanks all I didn't drop out--just had to finish a wood stove I was making before the sky fell in...

I watched those videos and yes I'm drooling all over myself thinking about those CheyTecs and then there's those "pesky Allen exp/raptor/mags" with that 338/408... I'm thinking that in spite of all the rush resulting from necking down when it comes to the real long ranges the highest BC/SD wins out--to a point. While there's plenty of tanks here they're all friendlies and those engine blocks are unconscionably difficult to digest... There seems to be a great selection of good bullets for the 338sm but not so many for larger calibers; maybe that will change? I could build a bullet lathe--how complex would that be? Just monitor shape, weight, and dimensions. It'd be slow, but worth it I think.

In visiting those recommended sites I have to say (safe to say as Jack O'Connor passed some years ago) that, for me anyway, function first, then form, and if there's anything left be fashionable, but do avoid the fad... Any stock that supports a LR barreled action and appropriate scope best--irrespective of its appearance--is tops. It's the barrel and its mating with the machinery that's so important and from what I've seen on this site there's any number of people who really are into LRH--and know what they're talking about. I think I learned more than I forgot today alone--that there really is even more I don't know... And its great.

Is that what's called a "tube rifle" bogger1?

I'm going to try to post some pics of that moose lake--with moose in situ--and maybe some of the bulls I've extracted from there.