You serious Clark?
Raise prices to cut demand? Sell less at higher prices? What about when that backlog is flush?
Defiance Action Updated Pricing
- Thread starter reeldawg
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You serious Clark?
Raise prices to cut demand? Sell less at higher prices? What about when that backlog is flush?
I just realized we aren't a site sponsor currently. I apologize for my confusion. I'm just a machinist and marketing and advertising isn't my wheel house haha. Thank you Len.
I need to do the same, I am ~3.5 hours away.
Exactly. I wouldn't want to have more than a 6 month backlog if I were making something from raw materials. You try to plan and have a good "educated guess" but really, you have zero knowledge of what your costs could do in 6 months- yet you've already taken orders and made promises to deliver on prices that are relevant today. What if the supply chain suddenly dries up and you have to pay 50-400% more for your raw materials? What if labor supply suddenly becomes non-existent and you have to pay more for unskilled workers AND pay to have them trained? I know, we likely would never see either of those situations play out in our lifetimes....wait, oh, that's right, we just did.
rsbhunter
Well-Known Member
I bought a Deviant SA back in May of 2022....cost me $1350.00....I like it, but only bought it because it was about $2-3 hundred under a Bat....for the new prices, I'll DEFINITELY be buying Bat actions.....hope the new owner (Bob Beck ?) gets rich quickly enough........but I honestly believe business will suffer...rsbhunter
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
The MARKET will determine their fate. Enough said.
Yep! Same thing I said on the other similar thread.
The level of price increase on the Tenacity seems like they are trying to get out of that product entirely. I managed a pump product line for 6 years and sometimes the price increase strategy is the best way to move customers into other products. Given that they have 9 different actions and many of them are very similar, it does make some sense to consolidate. If thats that they are doing, I'm not so sure why they chose the Tenacity as it seems to be taking themselves out the "entry level" game entirely with those prices.
Best post in this thread jpfrog.
We just went through this last year. Had multi year projects and got our teeth kicked in from labor, material, and equipment increases.
The speculation on this situation would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. Nobody other than the parties directly involved know why and how it happened and how to fix it.
SteveBurton
Formerly 'Jackmonkey'
That is Business 101 from 30 years ago. Today, when prices increase, they never go back down. There are too many people waiting in line behind you for a business to care. Let's call it pandemic pricing 101.
Most custom action prices are in the $1500 range now. I know you are getting a better action but a trued/blueprinted rem 700 is looking a lot better to me now.
Eric Stecker EG
Member
For the record, the price increase was necessary to keep Defiance open. I won't go into the deep details but instead I'll offer that I've been in the firearms industry for 32 years. Prior to my role at McMillan and Defiance I was President and Owner of Berger and then President of Capstone when Berger was sold. I am intimately familiar with premium product pricing and the impact of price changes on the firearms market.
After leaving Berger/Capstone and taking a short semi-retirement, Kelly made me GM of McMillan. When McMillan was purchased, the company health situation was very different than Defiance. McMillan had its issues as all companies do but it was healthy enough that we had time to adjust slowly and deliberately.
This was not the case at Defiance. I can't predict the future in a multi-verse but in looking at the deal there were strong, real-world indicators that Defiance was heading rapidly to closure. Despite this poor condition, Bob Beck believed strongly in the brand and the people who make the products. It was based on this (almost exclusively) that he went forward with the deal despite all indicators clearly offering that keeping Defiance open would be risky to say the least.
The price increase and the speed at which it is being implemented are required in our efforts to keep Defiance open and get it back to stable health.
A couple things to keep in mind are that Bob has taken on a great risk to keep a company open that many others wouldn't touch. I am basically living in MT while my home and family (including a new granddaughter who is perfect) is in AZ. Bob and I have a combined experience in the firearms industry of over 50 years. On top of that we have a tremendous team at both McMillan and Defiance (all of which stayed after the sale except for those responsible for financials). If you think our collective group are not capable, considerate people with enough experience to know what this change means and would have done anything to avoid or minimize it, you are not letting our collective record speak for itself.
If you think that the price change and rapid implementation has anything to do with a money grab, you are simply wrong. Everyone who purchased a Defiance action, specifically the anTi, Outcast and Tenacity before the price increase can thank Defiance for the extra cash that was put into the box when your action shipped. You may not have seen it, but I assure you, Defiance gave it to you. The other actions were anemic enough that the situation was dire and urgent.
The price change, discount restructure and Bob's infusion of finance has now put Defiance on stable ground. From a financial health score point of view, Defiance is in better shape than it has been for a long time.
We are doing all we can to price all our products fairly. We've added an additional volume discount level for builders. We are close to announcing a new action that will be priced lower than the others but will have controls on options and volume requirements. We are working toward increasing output and expanding capacity. There are even going to be a few surprises in new action offerings and additional support for gun builders.
Having worked in the premium firearms market all my career I can assure everyone that "it costs too much" is and has always been the #1 complaint against premium products. I am a reasonable person who listens to customers and wants all our brands to be successful. Throughout my career I've priced our products as fairly as possible keeping this #1 complaint always in mind. This will continue to be the case into the future.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
COO Extreme Group
After leaving Berger/Capstone and taking a short semi-retirement, Kelly made me GM of McMillan. When McMillan was purchased, the company health situation was very different than Defiance. McMillan had its issues as all companies do but it was healthy enough that we had time to adjust slowly and deliberately.
This was not the case at Defiance. I can't predict the future in a multi-verse but in looking at the deal there were strong, real-world indicators that Defiance was heading rapidly to closure. Despite this poor condition, Bob Beck believed strongly in the brand and the people who make the products. It was based on this (almost exclusively) that he went forward with the deal despite all indicators clearly offering that keeping Defiance open would be risky to say the least.
The price increase and the speed at which it is being implemented are required in our efforts to keep Defiance open and get it back to stable health.
A couple things to keep in mind are that Bob has taken on a great risk to keep a company open that many others wouldn't touch. I am basically living in MT while my home and family (including a new granddaughter who is perfect) is in AZ. Bob and I have a combined experience in the firearms industry of over 50 years. On top of that we have a tremendous team at both McMillan and Defiance (all of which stayed after the sale except for those responsible for financials). If you think our collective group are not capable, considerate people with enough experience to know what this change means and would have done anything to avoid or minimize it, you are not letting our collective record speak for itself.
If you think that the price change and rapid implementation has anything to do with a money grab, you are simply wrong. Everyone who purchased a Defiance action, specifically the anTi, Outcast and Tenacity before the price increase can thank Defiance for the extra cash that was put into the box when your action shipped. You may not have seen it, but I assure you, Defiance gave it to you. The other actions were anemic enough that the situation was dire and urgent.
The price change, discount restructure and Bob's infusion of finance has now put Defiance on stable ground. From a financial health score point of view, Defiance is in better shape than it has been for a long time.
We are doing all we can to price all our products fairly. We've added an additional volume discount level for builders. We are close to announcing a new action that will be priced lower than the others but will have controls on options and volume requirements. We are working toward increasing output and expanding capacity. There are even going to be a few surprises in new action offerings and additional support for gun builders.
Having worked in the premium firearms market all my career I can assure everyone that "it costs too much" is and has always been the #1 complaint against premium products. I am a reasonable person who listens to customers and wants all our brands to be successful. Throughout my career I've priced our products as fairly as possible keeping this #1 complaint always in mind. This will continue to be the case into the future.
Regards,
Eric Stecker
COO Extreme Group
Eric Stecker EG
Member
Sorry guys. I posted the same statement twice. It's been a while since I've been on the forums and I'm a bit rusty. I stopped at the bottom of the first page and didn't see the statement. I forgot how long these discussions can get. Enjoy your Sunday. I'll be watching some football.
Eric,
Welcome to LRH, and enjoy! It is always nice to hear directly from the source. Cheers!
Ed
