Dead sled for load workup

[J E Custom]

Part of shooting tiny groups is that it gives you confidence in your set up the more confidence you have the better you going to shoot in the field or on the range

The main advantage to shooting small groups with any system is not only confidence but it settles the question that it is the rifle/load combination, or shooter error.

It also sets the mark high and places the responsibility for accuracy squarely on the shooters shoulders where it should be. even the best shots will find it hard to match the results in the field compared to being shot under controlled/perfect conditions.

I will use the best system i can find to do load/accuracy testing to prove the capability of the rifle and load with no external forces to contend with. and then work on my shooting in different positions to get closet to the controlled condition while testing.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[geo4061]

J E, I think the reason you like your set up so much is that you have it set up where it is solid and repeatable. I could never get mine set up where the set up was exactly the same from shot to shot. Therefore not consistent and I just didn't like that. Probably my engineering skills were at fault and not the unit.

 

[Alaska2006]

I own one but only use it for load development on kickers, light weight magnums usually. Think I've used mine a half dozen times. My son bought a Browning 325 short mag and that thing will bring tears to your eyes after about 4-5 rounds.I used the sled to develop his hunting load.

 

[FEENIX]

I have the original dead sled and have been using it for many years now for load development and barrel break-in with out any issues. I like how t transition from shooting to barrel cleaning with the same set-up with very minimum adjustments. Once I am happy with the load development, shoot prone and make necessary adjustments as required. The one issue I have with it, t that do not get a consistent cradle, cheek weld, and LOP.

I got this and liking it so far ...

(3-shot group @ 200 yards 125g Winchester factory ammo deer season XP in 6.5 CM )

 

[Bigeclipse]

Like every other tool. the lead sled has it's place and its strong points.

I use one for certain task and other means for other task and find the lead sled a very useful tool. I test fire all rifles in the lead sled because I can hold the rifle stationary and rem oat fire it for safety. I don't add any weight to it because it already weighs 18 Pounds. I use velcro to hold the rifle down during firing because it is consistent.

For load development, I like it because if set up right , it does not add externally forces than could alter the results. I want it to remove any human factors so the results are what the rifle and load is doing. Once the load is developed, I like to use bags because
they are more like real world results while hunting.

The best results have been while using the Sled, I have 4 hunting rifles that consistently
shoot groups below 1/10th MOA (My best was .034 5 shot @ 100 yards in the sled) The same rifle and load will only shoot in the .140s to .160s off the bags and my faults to deal with.

So In my mind, It is the best way to do load development in order to measure small changes in the different loads. (The best example is with only a change in the primer on one of my most accurate rifles the difference is only .023 thousandths) without the lead sled I cannot shoot well enough to see this difference in these two loads.

I use the lead sled that is fully adjustable and take care to get the best site picture each time and it helps a great deal. PS: I don't like shooting with ti because it doesn't fie me very well and is uncomfortable, but load development is another beast and it is the perfect tool in my opinion for this use.

Just My Opinion and uses for this tool.

J E CUSTOM

Thanks for the info. I decided to get the DFT 2 and if it doesn't work well for my needs I will sell it for a loss. No big deal. anw yays, do you mind sharing your process for shooting off it for load development? you stated "if setup right...". May I ask what you mean by setup right?

 

[J E Custom]

Thanks for the info. I decided to get the DFT 2 and if it doesn't work well for my needs I will sell it for a loss. No big deal. anw yays, do you mind sharing your process for shooting off it for load development? you stated "if setup right...". May I ask what you mean by setup right?

Not at all.

First, I use a good steady, flat shooting table (A Must). then I position the sled for the most comfortable position for me I can. The increased hight of the lead sled, requires a little adjusting of the seat hight. I sometimes resort to using a boat cushion as extra hight,

Next I place the rifle in the sled, and adjust the sled to get the rifle in the best position for support, I like the front rest to be just in front of the front action screw to prevent loading the fore arm any more than necessary. (I see many people setting it way out on the end of the forearm where the stock is the weakest) With the but stock/recoil pad in the back receiver , the rifle will retain its position best during the test. Sand bags or other type of rest change the rifles support positions each time you fire it changing the harmonics of the rifle and possibly the POI slightly. also the rifles reaction to recoil is changed by how much pressure is applied by the shooters grip and hold against his shoulder.

After the setup is as good as I can get it,and the site is perfectly lined up I single load only to keep the rifle position. after getting into position behind the sled with little or no contact with it , I load the round and recheck the PO Aim. With the rifle held down by a velcro strap there is no need to place my hand on anything but the trigger preventing more external loading.

After firing, i recheck the position and load for the next shot. Note: after each test group is fired, I clean the barrel and start with it in the same condition to start the next test as the first. this gives each test the same advantages as the other.

I know it sounds like a lot of trouble but by being very careful in the setup, saves many firings that could cull some groups. After all, if it is worth doing it is worth doing right !
I look for "ANY" difference even if it is a few thousandths because they make a difference at longer distances

As said earlier, I can't get as good of results with any other way or I would be using it.

It is easy to get one or two good shots on target, but difficult with 5 or more without some system that is very repeatable. so use what works best for you and benefit from it in the field with better hits.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Roll-Yur-Own]

Hated mine. I could never shoot consistent small groups with it. Therefore, I never trusted it when doing precise load work or sighting in.

Yup!

A gun that shot 1/4" shot almost 1".

 

[Bigeclipse]

Not at all.

First, I use a good steady, flat shooting table (A Must). then I position the sled for the most comfortable position for me I can. The increased hight of the lead sled, requires a little adjusting of the seat hight. I sometimes resort to using a boat cushion as extra hight,....As said earlier, I can't get as good of results with any other way or I would be using it.

It is easy to get one or two good shots on target, but difficult with 5 or more without some system that is very repeatable. so use what works best for you and benefit from it in the field with better hits.

J E CUSTOM

thanks for all of that. You said you use the Velcro strap over the barrel. Are you not afraid this changes the harmonics of the barrel? or is it more, yes it may change the harmonics but once you find a good load...that good load is typically a good load off bags as well. maybe you will have to change your scope settings due to POI shift but overall, the load will still be a good load?

 

[owlman]

I had a new rifle delivered the first of June which unfortunately came after surgery on my right shoulder. With a hunt scheduled for September I was anxious to get the gun sighted in and some ballistics worked up. By late August I had a green light from the doctor but I was forced to use a sled because the shoulder couldn't take much recoil even with a brake on the gun. I was careful about setup like J E Custom, used minimal weight on the sled and had good results. This is a three shot group at 400 yards off the sled without accounting for wind. Before leaving for the hunt, I swallowed two Aleve and shot a few rounds off of bags. I had pretty much the same results as the sled. I normally shoot off bags but the sled sure helped me get ready for my hunt.

 

[J E Custom]

thanks for all of that. You said you use the Velcro strap over the barrel. Are you not afraid this changes the harmonics of the barrel? or is it more, yes it may change the harmonics but once you find a good load...that good load is typically a good load off bags as well. maybe you will have to change your scope settings due to POI shift but overall, the load will still be a good load?

I place the velcro over the barrel under the scope as close to the action as I can get it
so that it is supported buy the bedding when i can. if the barrel is 100% floated , i place it over the front scope ring for the same results.

The main reason is to have consistent forces on the rifle.

Like many other things, not everyone likes the same thing I do but i use what works best for me even though I may like something better. I am results orientated and will use or do what gives me the best results. I prefer shooting of sand bags, but when testing, I switch to the lead sled to minimize the number of shots fired through the barrel and find that If i set the rifle supports in the same location on the bags I get good results.(Not as good as when on the lead sled but with no change in POI if it is set up right except the group size).

I don't own any rifles that won't shoot less than a 1/2 MOA and strive for rifles that will shoot under 1/10 th MOA so a good consistent set up is important when trying to measure in thousandths. Some one on this site uses the quote "Only accurate rifles are interesting" and i subscribe to this way of thinking.

Just like any computer , the quality you get out depends on the quality/effort you put in. With bags i can turn a 1/10th MOA rifle into a 1/4 + MOA rifle because of my inconsistencies and the systems inconsistencies. Under field conditions it can be even worse if I don't work at it or take the time to get the best position.

J E CUSTOM

 

[jrock]

I built a "sled" that weights about 3 to 4 lbs. I used a 1/2" wide leather strap to go around the butt instead of a rigid system. This way, their is some recoil reduction but the leather stretches a bit so you don't get the full resisting effect of a typical sled. I only use it on larger recoiling guns and sometimes for load workups. I never use it for sighting in for hunting season. I do believe that you should sight in the rifle for the resting method you are planning to use in the field.

 

[geo4061]

J E say a rifle shoots .1 inch groups strapped up. Then what size groups will this same rifle shoot with a bi-pod and bag.

 

[Bigeclipse]

J E say a rifle shoots .1 inch groups strapped up. Then what size groups will this same rifle shoot with a bi-pod and bag.

I think he mentioned in earlier posts he has seen a group go from .1 in the sled to .2-.3 off bags/bipod and that he is not sure if it is the change in setup or shooter error which is the cause