CVA Paramount Pro Colorado

dodgefreak8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
288
Location
Fort Morgan, Colorado
LR Customs is right..........
The ELR's are well known to cause problems when shot through a brake. CVA has had 2 or more revisions to brakes and still, owners are just removing their brakes and saying 'to heck with it'. However, get rid of the ELR's and shoot a good bullet, bullet to bore and the brakes work.
There are a lot of great bullets that can be used..

I'm going to attach a photo that will clearly show what happens when plastic goes through a brake, in this case a radial brake. Its clearly evident that the base of sabots are shredded when shot through a brake. This is exactly what happens with the ELR, except..... the skirt remains attached to the bullet, unlike a sabot. There goes accuracy.
Its easy to see which were shot through a brake and those which were not.
The belt on a powerbelt does not stay attached to the bullet. It's designed to fall away quickly and it does. I've never had any accuracy issues with the 325gr elr bullets with the mz-rex brake
 

ENCORE

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Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
1,180
Location
Near a lake with no fish
The skirt will remain attached until the bullet has left the barrel and brake. Others have recovered bullet with the skirts still attached.
You're lucky to not have any accuracy issues. Actually LR Customs stopped making brakes for the Paramount. I know Levi well.

brake 1.jpg
 

dodgefreak8

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Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
288
Location
Fort Morgan, Colorado
The skirt will remain attached until the bullet has left the barrel and brake. Others have recovered bullet with the skirts still attached.
You're lucky to not have any accuracy issues. Actually LR Customs stopped making brakes for the Paramount. I know Levi well.

View attachment 247487
I'm sorry but this is simply not true.. If the belt detached at different times in flight and wasnt predictable you would never obtain any type of accuracy.. losing that weight and drag at unpredictable yardage would cause extreme stability issues and would greatly affect drop and group sizes even in a rifle with no brake.. second if the belt is causing issues through the brake then those sabots you showed would cause even bigger accuracy issues. Those have the bullet cupped until they exit the brake and can expand and fall away..
Now I'm not saying there aren't some people having issues with the cva brake but I think they have some huge inconsistencies in their quality control. Not everyone running their brake is having issues. This could be a brake issue as well as a rifle issue if the muzzle isn't threaded concentric.
 

ENCORE

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Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
1,180
Location
Near a lake with no fish
I'm sorry but this is simply not true.. If the belt detached at different times in flight and wasnt predictable you would never obtain any type of accuracy.. losing that weight and drag at unpredictable yardage would cause extreme stability issues and would greatly affect drop and group sizes even in a rifle with no brake.. second if the belt is causing issues through the brake then those sabots you showed would cause even bigger accuracy issues. Those have the bullet cupped until they exit the brake and can expand and fall away..
Now I'm not saying there aren't some people having issues with the cva brake but I think they have some huge inconsistencies in their quality control. Not everyone running their brake is having issues. This could be a brake issue as well as a rifle issue if the muzzle isn't threaded concentric.
The brakes and the ELR bullet are causing accuracy issues, which is evident if you review the many posts on the Paramount page. If enough posts are reviewed, you'll also find recovered bullets with partial skirts still connected.

The sabots in the photo were shot through a RADIAL brake, not a tactical brake. The radial brakes have almost no issues when shooting sabots. Tactical brakes on the other hand are much different. Accuracy can suffer and fliers are seen often.
Shooting veggie wads through a tactical will make you wonder just where the wad goes. I personally know shooters who have shot next to their garage and had the veggie wad shoot out the side of the brake and imbed themselves in vinyl siding.
Again, there's a reason the LR Customs Paramount brakes aren't made anymore.
 

Wedgy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
2,438
I'm sorry but this is simply not true.. If the belt detached at different times in flight and wasn't predictable you would never obtain any type of accuracy.. losing that weight and drag at unpredictable yardage would cause extreme stability issues and would greatly affect drop and group sizes even in a rifle with no brake.. second if the belt is causing issues through the brake then those sabots you showed would cause even bigger accuracy issues. Those have the bullet cupped until they exit the brake and can expand and fall away..
Now I'm not saying there aren't some people having issues with the cva brake but I think they have some huge inconsistencies in their quality control. Not everyone running their brake is having issues. This could be a brake issue as well as a rifle issue if the muzzle isn't threaded concentric.
I would agree that you are not having the issue with how well your gun shoots this ELR bullet but does the belt expand as it leaves the muzzle and hit the baffles ? How much over bore size is the belt and what is the bore size of the brake ? Curious because I have both this gun and the Trex brake on their way here. Also it would appear Blackhorn is mighty scarce these days, what is the next best powder ?
 

ENCORE

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Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
1,180
Location
Near a lake with no fish
I can tell you that the belt expands and hits the baffles and it can be seen in the photo of the brake.
There are a lot of different bullets that can be shot without skirts or sabots. Because of the "B" bore of the Paramount, some may need to be knurled.
Its hit or miss on the BH209. A friend just walked into Cabela's this past weekend and bought 3 bottles. Most Wal-Mart stores have been raided by now, but some guys were getting deals there. Some of the larger online sites get powder in, but if you're not checking it, it'll all be gone very quickly.

Partial skirt still attached after a 168yd harvest.....

skirt attached.jpg
 

Bcougar9

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Washington State
Just following up on my experience. I basically am running the same setup as dodge. CVA paramount pro colorado 50 cal shooting the ELR's, but using the CVA brake. Im shooting the magnum charge he is, 119 gr by weight blackhorn 209. I didnt even need to do a workup, just followed his advice. First day I had three shot groups touching at 100 yards. Ive taken it out to 300 yards so far with good results. My gun does require a fouling shot. Firing a primer alone did not work. I wasnt even cleaning between shots, but waiting about 5-7 minutes. Just echoing what dodge's experience was, in case others are looking for good info, what he said is working well for me also!
 

Bcougar9

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Washington State
Another follow up after my trip to Colorado. Early in my hunt I went to take a shot on a very nice bull at 180, and the gun didn't go off. I am new to muzzleloaders, so I was not aware that the bolt can still lift when it is on safety, unlike a rifle. Apparently when I went prone, or at some point in my hour long pursuit of the bull, the bolt had slightly lifted, enough that the firing pin did not hit the primer. Luckily I got on the same bull three days later and had no issues at 80 yards. Double lung, bullet did not pass through. On the hide on the back side, I found part of the base, with partial skirt still attached similar to the photo above. The bullet was obliterated basically, not a lot of mass left. I did shoot through some juniper limbs that were at the bull (vs near my muzzle) and so it is possible they could have caused it to open prematurely? The bull didn't even make it 50 yards. It seems as though I have similar marks on my CVA brake as the photos above so I dont know if the belt is hitting the baffles, although I have not had accuracy issues to my knowledge...but am not shooting past 300. I am very happy with the gun and setup thus far, but dont have the experience to draw any comparisons. Thanks to everyone who has offered insight on this thread, I found it very helpful.
 

FrontierGander

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Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
236
Location
Boncarbo,Colorado
nope, just typical powerbelt performance.

A game warden and i were talking last week and he stated that 90% of the wounded/lost, he found powerbelts in. So many folks are just unaware how fragile they are and how worthless the lighter powerbelts are on big game.
 

Wedgy

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Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
2,438
I am running the same setup as Dodge and had zero issues until about 30 shots, then the powder funnel that comes with the T-rex brake would no longer go in smoothly. First I thought is was just black powder residue but no, it was really gouging the aluminum funnel. I coated it with dykem and the scratches were at 10, 2, 4, and 8 o'clock which coincides with the edges of the ports. I smoothed the burrs out with a 1/2" round file but they came back after another ~20 rounds. I called CVA and asked how the skirts function and was told they come off right after the bullet leaves the muzzle and you can find them about 20 feet down range. Of course I looked on my next range trip and sure enough I found a couple of them. I have shot the gun out to 500 yards and have had great accuracy, a couple fliers but I attributed that to my shooting, hard to tell. I did not have enough time to try any other bullets and was off to Colorado for a deer hunt. Ended up taking a nice 4x4 in velvet after chasing a couple deer around a few days. Had a 5x4 in the mix but went for the velvet buck instead. Shot was 280 yards freehand as the brush was 5 feet high, more or less broadside, slightly quartering to me. He dumped at the shot then got up and fell over again backwards, then ran 60 yards and expired. You can see a golf ball size lump in his side which is the bullet under the hide, it hit a rib on the way in and what's left was about half of the 330 grain ELR Powerbelt. The body on this deer was big so it went thru almost 2 feet of deer but didn't hit any major bone.
I also took a ~280 lb bear at 160 yards, shot entered the rear ribs and exited the opposite front of the shoulder with massive bone damage and a 2" exist hole. He made it about 20 yards and died quickly.
While I am satisfied with the accuracy of the ELR bullets I am not sure what to think on the performance if they hit an elk bone and I certainly don't like the skirt hitting the brake. My gun pushed the 330 ELR at 2,340 fps(labradar), (first 2 shots after cleaning are 140 fps slower) and I would have thought the bullet would exit the deer. Any recommendation on a sabotless 50 cal bullet I should be looking at for next year if I decide to switch ?
belt1.jpg
belt4.jpg
belt9.jpg
belt2.jpg
belt5.jpg
?
 

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