I have to say that when I read a label like "Cutting Edge match tactical hunting" the first thing that comes to mind is that the company that produces it certainly has a marketing department with an active imagination. That hits all the buzzwords you can pack into a bullet name short of armor piercing, incendiary, and heat-seeking - although I'm sure my creative fellow commenters will come up with a few even more humorous hyperbolically descriptive terms. Supercavitating high-explosive tracer, anyone? Terrain-following stealth?
Cutting Edge Bullets
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I have to say that when I read a label like "Cutting Edge match tactical hunting" the first thing that comes to mind is that the company that produces it certainly has a marketing department with an active imagination. That hits all the buzzwords you can pack into a bullet name short of armor piercing, incendiary, and heat-seeking - although I'm sure my creative fellow commenters will come up with a few even more humorous hyperbolically descriptive terms. Supercavitating high-explosive tracer, anyone? Terrain-following stealth?
Yeah, that's a really CREATIVE Marketing...That said, the precision of these ogives is unquestionable.
I am in California and have tested them extensively. My all time favorite hunting bullet has been the Nosler Partition. The design was to expend the front and penetrate the back half. The frontal portion would fragment and increase the wound channel. Then the remainder would nearly always exit. The theory was that the more energy expended in the wound channel the more efficient the bullet. This has been the design basis behind both the Lehigh Defense Chaos and Cutting Edge Bullets. I have been shooting just about every non-lead bullet brand for the past 6 or 7 years to determine which will be my go to now that we have to use non lead going forward. I have come to the conclusion that they will outperform any other non lead bullet on game from deer down. On larger game where deeper penetration is required then Barnes or most any other mushrooming style non lead should be used. We found that many times we were tracking deer that were clean kill hits (heart, lung, etc. but they ran sometimes for hundreds yards using Barnes, Hornady, Nosler etc.. Often with small exit holes which would often seal and make for difficult tracking. Nearly every animal shot from varmints to hogs etc. were DRT using the CE Raptors or Lehigh Chaos bullets.
pacowboy
Well-Known Member
Can't wait to hear this response.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
It has been shown in testing that a flat faced bullet will displace more 'flesh' and create more hydrostatic shock in an animal than a round nosed bullet.
A mushrooming or petal-ing bullet creates a larger frontal face diameter but usually creates less internal disruption and shock in an animal... think of fluid dynamics/aerodynamics, a round frontal area is more aerodynamic causing less air or fluid disruption than a flat faced projectile. This is why large flat meaplats in hardcast bullets create internal hydrostatic damage
There are 2 ways of thinking--- petals off, and petals on--- petals off not only create numerous smaller wound channels, but the large flat faced base causes hydrostatic shock as it completely penetrates --- petals on, creates a larger permanent hole, more cutting action but less hydrostatic shock.
Hammer bullets and gs custom bullets use the petals off design (also similar to an accubond bullet as accubond bullets shed the frontal area but are generally left with a flatter face profile )
Barnes and hornady gmx utilize the petals on design (similar to most cup&core mushrooming lead core bullets) to create a larger diameter projectile for a larger hole but often less internal shock
Lots of options are great, some designs excell in places others dont -- every bullet design will fail at some point
I've seen a good quote before---"every bullet is perfect until you shoot it out of a gun"
A mushrooming or petal-ing bullet creates a larger frontal face diameter but usually creates less internal disruption and shock in an animal... think of fluid dynamics/aerodynamics, a round frontal area is more aerodynamic causing less air or fluid disruption than a flat faced projectile. This is why large flat meaplats in hardcast bullets create internal hydrostatic damage
There are 2 ways of thinking--- petals off, and petals on--- petals off not only create numerous smaller wound channels, but the large flat faced base causes hydrostatic shock as it completely penetrates --- petals on, creates a larger permanent hole, more cutting action but less hydrostatic shock.
Hammer bullets and gs custom bullets use the petals off design (also similar to an accubond bullet as accubond bullets shed the frontal area but are generally left with a flatter face profile )
Barnes and hornady gmx utilize the petals on design (similar to most cup&core mushrooming lead core bullets) to create a larger diameter projectile for a larger hole but often less internal shock
Lots of options are great, some designs excell in places others dont -- every bullet design will fail at some point
I've seen a good quote before---"every bullet is perfect until you shoot it out of a gun"
WYO300RUM
Well-Known Member
My 0.2 cents. I'm sure most everybody would want their arrow/broadhead to exit and do as much damage going through as possible . I know there is not the hydrostatic shock like a bullet, but to me almost same thing. I've shot Barnes triple shoks for many years. Most pass through . If not they are dam good bone busters. I've never had an elk, deer or lope run away . Most all drop right there. I do occasionally aim for shoulder. Especially on elk. That bullet delivered a lot of energy and damage . Maybe if it didn't exit it was because it wasnt a mono or it didn't have enough energy to or the bullet came apart , intentionally or not, and didn't have enough weight/energy to exit . Especially if no bone was involved.
Let us all ponder.... ????
Let us all ponder.... ????
I've decided.........I like those ones I saw on future weapons the other day. Israel makes um. They explode on impact, but just the front piece. Then when they get inside they blow up all over again. Kills everytime and no trackin!
I have some experience with the brass versions of the Lehigh Controlled Chaos and have killed a total of 4 deer with them all using the 145gr out of a 30-06 at 3040 fps with impacts around 70 yards.
The first doe was a double lung shot and ran maybe 20 yards into the brush at dark leaving a blood trail I could easily follow with my phone light. Caliber sized entry and exit with a bloodshot area approximately 2" in diameter on the inside of the ribs from the shrapnel.
Doe number 2 was at a high angle shooting down hill, made a rushed shot as she turned toward the property edge and my shot clipped the top edge of the vertebrae and left a 1" diameter hole on the top of the back. She rolled down the hill and bled out in less than 30 sec.
My buck was hit low in the chest heavily quartered towards me while it was slightly above me in elevation. He dropped stone dead, bullet destroyed the lungs but didn't break the diaphragm and I found the base next to the spine just in front of the left hip.
The third doe was another double lung shot that exited low due to the angle, similar performance as the first but larger exit hole due to the shorter cross section. She ran maybe 30 yards and I took a picture of the blood trail and the deer, you can can see the same tree top center in the background of both pictures.
Personally they have killed everything I've ever shot with them either immediately or in quick fashion but the brass ones have a much higher expansion velocity that limits the range to 300yds or less which isn't really an issue where I hunt.
The first doe was a double lung shot and ran maybe 20 yards into the brush at dark leaving a blood trail I could easily follow with my phone light. Caliber sized entry and exit with a bloodshot area approximately 2" in diameter on the inside of the ribs from the shrapnel.
Doe number 2 was at a high angle shooting down hill, made a rushed shot as she turned toward the property edge and my shot clipped the top edge of the vertebrae and left a 1" diameter hole on the top of the back. She rolled down the hill and bled out in less than 30 sec.
My buck was hit low in the chest heavily quartered towards me while it was slightly above me in elevation. He dropped stone dead, bullet destroyed the lungs but didn't break the diaphragm and I found the base next to the spine just in front of the left hip.
The third doe was another double lung shot that exited low due to the angle, similar performance as the first but larger exit hole due to the shorter cross section. She ran maybe 30 yards and I took a picture of the blood trail and the deer, you can can see the same tree top center in the background of both pictures.
Personally they have killed everything I've ever shot with them either immediately or in quick fashion but the brass ones have a much higher expansion velocity that limits the range to 300yds or less which isn't really an issue where I hunt.
I've shot several hogs and deer with the Lehigh Defense subsonic fracturing projectiles, very destructive. Of course what does one expect from a .510 caliber 725 grain bullet that sheds several petals the size of .243 bullets...
I personally haven't had very good luck with the CE bullets, but they're a very good bullet. The "fragmenting" design is there to appease both sides of the terminal performance debate. You get a bullet that fragments like a Berger but still penetrates and gives a good exit. Plus, the blunt nose profile of the remaining bullet shank after the petals break off will cause very significant damage while it penetrates.
I'm one of those guys who wants two holes, let the air in and let the blood out so this type of terminal performance is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm partial to the Hammer bullets which perform very similarly on impact.
I'm one of those guys who wants two holes, let the air in and let the blood out so this type of terminal performance is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm partial to the Hammer bullets which perform very similarly on impact.
Sanford338
Well-Known Member
Shoot
Shoot Underwood out of my G20 10mm... stuff is the real deal! Taken countless hogs and a couple of does. It's a "killer" bullet literally... if he's your friend, hook a brother up if you won't take him up on it... Underwood gets my vote! Any day of the week
Overkill338
Well-Known Member
I love Underwood ammo. I like Doubletap "ok", but the past few years their stuff isn't meeting advertised velocities. Here is the chrono # from my G29 with the stock barrel and a Lonewolf 4.6" barrel.
Underwood 155 XTP
3.78" - 1426 fps 700 Ft/lbs
4.60" - 1518 & 793
Underwood 180 XTP
3.78" - 1228 & 603
4.60" - 1321 & 698
Underwood 165 Gold Dot
3.78" - 1337 & 655
4.60" - 1441 & 761
Underwood 180 Gold Dot
3.78" - 1236 & 611
4.60" - 1331 & 708
Underwood 200 Nosler
3.78" - 1170 & 608
4.60" - 1252 & 696
Underwood 200 XTP
3.78" - 1163 & 601
4.60" - 1244 & 688
DoubleTap 200 Hardcast
3.78" - 1077 & 515
4.60" - 1181 & 619
Underwood 200 Hardcast
3.78" - 1159 & 596
4.60" - 1246 & 689
Underwood 220 Hardcast
3.78" - 1091 & 581
4.60" - 1167 & 605
Hornady Custom 155 XTP
3.78" - 1269 & 554
4.60" - 1323 & 603
Hornady Custom 180 XTP
3.78" - 1128 & 509
4.60" - 1210 & 585
Hornady Critical Duty 175
3.78" - 1083 & 456
4.60" - 1146 & 510
Winchester Silvertips 175
3.78" - 1129 & 495
4.60" - 1167 & 529
Fenix 180 Gold Dot
3.78" - 1276 & 651
4.60" - 1328 & 705
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
The 9mm 90gr pistol bullets worked great on a doe I shot at 25 yards. 2 petals cut through the lungs one lodged in the heart, the base hit the heart as well. 40 yards and fell over.
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
I would like to run them more at 16-1600fps out of a 357 sig
