Cutting edge bullets - Seating depth

[Mike D Texas]

I guess my coffee hasn't kicked in this morning.

I have some CE Lazer bullets I plan to try in several rifles. The instructions below is what was in the box:

Am I reading that preferred seating depth is .000 to .005 off the lands and if that doesn't work try .020 - .030? The "of" on there is confusing. I'm guessing that maybe should said "or"?

 

[FEENIX]

I guess my coffee hasn't kicked in this morning.

I have some CE Lazer bullets I plan to try in several rifles. The instructions below is what was in the box:

View attachment 405923
Am I reading that preferred seating depth is .000 to .005 off the lands and if that doesn't work try .020 - .030? The "of" on there is confusing. I'm guessing that maybe should said "or"?

My take is the recommended seating depth of the lands is .020" - .030" with increments of up to .005." But when in doubt, contact their support section, as noted on the box. Good luck!

Ed

ADDED: https://cuttingedgebullets.com/reloading-instructions

Reloading Instructions

Thank you for your interest in shooting the latest technology in solid copper, match grade projectiles. Due to their unique design that includes a SealTite™band, or sealing band, there are some reloading practices that must be followed for optimum performance.
The copper used in the manufacturing of these projectiles is very soft and care must be taken in handling the bullets to ensure the SealTite™band or tip is not damaged. For this reason, they are packaged in a divided box. After the bullets are properly loaded into a case, the SealTite™band will be protected. Since these solid copper bullets rely solely on the hollow point being open for expansion, care must be taken to ensure the tip is not damaged as well. A paper clip can be used to open up the hole if it gets dented to ensure the bullet will expand properly by letting fluid enter the cavity which causes hydraulic pressure to split the tip.

We recommend to seat the bullets per note 4 instructions for load development and fine tuning can then be done with seating depth if accuracy is not satisfactory in this position.
Standard reloading procedures can be followed with a few exceptions:

1. Brass casings should be trimmed to standard trim length. Ensure the inside of the case mouth is chamfered a minimum of ¼ of the brass wall thickness preferably with a VLD chamfering tool. This will ensure the SealTite™ band is not sheared off if it needs to be installed further into the case than at the mouth of the case as well as preventing shaving of copper from the bullets body.
2. When seating the bullets, press the bullets into the case until the SealTite™ Band comes close to brass case mouth or use the pre-established COAL method (see 4 below). This will allow approximately .020-.025" jump of the SealTite™ Band into the chamber throat. If less of a jump is required, blacken the entire bullet and seat it shallower looking for marks.
3. Another method commonly used to seat bullets is to use an O.A.L gage to find where a bullet makes contact in a chamber. This method works well with the CEB bullets and is performed in the same manner as any bullet.
4. Since our Meplat is machined and consistent from bullet to bullet, COAL can be measured very accurately. Measuring the COAL is an easier way for most people (including us), to seat our bullets to proper depth. The distance from the tip to the boat tail side of the SealTite™ Band is given in the individual bullet descriptions which is called the bullet projection length. This dimension plus the brass length will put the SealTite™ Band in perfect position which will be close to the case mouth. This will typically allow .020-.025" jump of STB into the chamber throat. If the cartridge overall length (COAL) is too long to fit into your magazine, the bullet can be seated deeper which in turn will give the bullet more jump into the chamber throat. Do not in any case seat the bullets with the SealTite™ Band deeper than one half of the brass neck length. Otherwise the bullets will not be held securely enough to ensure they will not move if dropped on the tip or bumped.
5. Our bullets are capable of obtaining the same muzzle velocity as any other bullet of the same weight with similar pressure results. Our test results stated in the individual bullet descriptions are typically achieved using rifles with longer than standard barrels and are not typical results obtainable by using standard length barrels. Whatever your particular rifle is capable of producing speed wise with other bullets of a similar weight is what we recommend shooting our bullets at. As with any bullet, the maximum obtainable speed may or may not be the most accurate speed to shoot these bullets. This being said it is not uncommon with our "MAX" designated bullets to achieve higher velocities due to their short body length.

If you have any questions regarding reloading procedures or any other technical questions, please call or email our technical department.

 

[ZReed85]

I took it to basically mean
.015-.035 off. I had zero success getting them to shoot in my 308 which is a proven very accurate rifle. Let us know what you find and what works. I'd love to get them to shoot.

 

[Pdvdh]

The preferred bullet jump is from the seal-tite band to your chamber throat, NOT to the lands. The seal-tite band will contact the throat before the bullet ogive touches the lands. If you visit their website, some further explanation is available.

The "loading instructions" in my boxes of CE Lazers state preferred seating depth is .000" - .005" or .020" to .030".

I get good precision from the Lazers. Bullet jump to the throat has affected precision in some of my rifles. So worth the effort to try both recommended options. So far I've only tried .005" jumps, and within the range of .020" - .025" jumps.

I haven't seen differing bullet jumps cause huge affects on precision yet (say - for shorter range hunting loads), but enough to be worth the effort if you shoot long ranges.

 

[Quicksilver338]

So when using the typical Hornady tool to check when a standard bullet contacts the lands, when the cutting edge bullet stops that is actually the sealtite band contacting the throat and not the ogive contacting the lands? Is this correct?

 

[Mike D Texas]

So when using the typical Hornady tool to check when a standard bullet contacts the lands, when the cutting edge bullet stops that is actually the sealtite band contacting the throat and not the ogive contacting the lands? Is this correct?

That's not my understanding. The seal tite band is actually larger than caliber. The bullets themselves appear to be a bore rider design so when you use your preferred method to have the bearing surface touch the lands, that's what you would work back from. But unlike a conventional bullet the bore rider style will typically be further toward the shank.

For example my 156 Berger EOL touches the lands at 3.565 and the 125 CE Lazer touches at 3.610.

 

[QuietTexan]

I'm trying to figure this out also. I'm looking at my 26 Nosler reamer print and the start of the throat (freebore and leade combined) doesn't have a length on it, but math puts it at .0335" long. My dummy round was within .0005" of this without seeing the CE specs.

For example my 156 Berger EOL touches the lands at 3.565 and the 125 CE Lazer touches at 3.610.

Mike - I've come around to thinking you were right and I was wrong on the "jump" here because the STB will be in contact with the freebore section no matter how long it is set up for the 156s. I wasn't grasping the point that the STB is larger than caliber at first.

So when using the typical Hornady tool to check when a standard bullet contacts the lands, when the cutting edge bullet stops that is actually the sealtite band contacting the throat and not the ogive contacting the lands? Is this correct?

Yes. Sorry, quoted you but read a different post after mine while typing an edit and got the two confused.

Pictured below is a CE 133 MTAC single Feed. STB is 0.2655" in diameter, so 0.0015" greater than caliber. The bearing surface of the bullet begins ~0.125" above the STB where the bullet reaches groove diameter of .264", so only half of my freebore length. To get the bullet into the lands I think I'd have to push the 0.0015" ovedrsized STB ~.125" down the freebore section.

 

[Pdvdh]

So when using the typical Hornady tool to check when a standard bullet contacts the lands, when the cutting edge bullet stops that is actually the sealtite band contacting the throat and not the ogive contacting the lands? Is this correct?

Exactly correct.

The sealtite band touches the throat in my chambers before the ogive touches the lands on each of my rifles, because the sealtite band is larger in diameter than your throat diameter. Which explains the relatively short bullet jump recommendations. The sealtite band has to be very close to the case mouth, or the band will be squished into your throat.

So unless your chambers are exceptionally short throated, and your throat starts a long distance from your case mouth, the sealtite band will contact your throat before the ogive touches the lands.

First step I take for Lazer bullets with each of my rifles is blacken the forward edge of the sealtite band with a black felt pen. Next, determine and record the Hornady tool measurement when the sealtite band just clears your throat. Contact with the throat will remove the black felt pen mark from the forward edge of the sealtite band. With the Hornady tool measurement for throat contact recorded, you can now move the sealtite band away from your throat a "known" distance. And Cutting Edge recommends two bullet seating depth ranges.
1) .000" to .005" OR
2) .020" - .030".

Anybody calls Cutting Edge and talks to a Tech Rep and learns something different than what I've posted, please inform the membership, including the name of the Tech Rep spoken to.

 

[ZReed85]

So with the Hornady oacl gauge and going off its reading would be correct. Seal tight band would engage the lands first and we measure from that reading to determine jump.

Thank you for the clarification and that's how I measured. I'll jump around to some different powders and revisit.

 

[Pdvdh]

So with the Hornady oacl gauge and going off its reading would be correct. Seal tight band would engage the lands first and we measure from that reading to determine jump.

Thank you for the clarification and that's how I measured. I'll jump around to some different powders and revisit.

No. See post #8.

The sealtite band will ALWAYS contact the throat before contacting the lands. Because the sealtite band is larger in diameter than the diameter of any throat.

You can use the Hornady tool to determine jump to the throat.
Or, you can measure and use the OACL instead of the Hornady tool. The CE bullets are manufactured to such tight tolerances that the OACL will also be an accurate method of determining a bullet jump to throat distance. After you determine the OACL that coincides with the sealtite band just clear of your throat, you can just reduce OACL by the amount you want to jump the bullet's sealtite band to the throat.

 

[misterc01]

Probably "or." But I would just call them and ask for clarification. I have read other information on other bullets where the maker recommended two differt seating depths - one close and the other further out.

 

[blvette75]

I am doing the same as others here just starting with the Cutting edge product. This is from their website-"Do not in any case seat the bullets with the SealTite™ Band deeper than one half of the brass neck length." I was going to use this guidance to load my bullets and then make incremental adjustments to the OAL of my cartridge. Has anyone had any issues seating their bullets to 1/2 the length of their neck length?

Thanks, James

 

[Mike D Texas]

To follow up on this I sent an email to their tech department. Their response is below.

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks.
Kind of a cluster.
I suspect Nikki meant to type "to the throat". Not "to the lands". But she typed "to the lands" twice.

The only way to get the SealTite Band to touch the lands is to deform it in the throat. By cramming it all the way down thru the throat. And then the base of their bullet will barely be held in the case neck. Possibly pulling out of the case neck upon extraction of a live round.

You asked for clarification. I'm afraid the response got muddled