Custom Rifle Build Need Some Info

[luwelder798]

I am having a custom tactical rifle built from nighthawk tactical. I'm really having a hard time deciding on the caliber to go with. I know the 300 mag is a very accurate round and may be the caliber i go with but i'm not set on it yet. I'm also thinking of the 300 RUM and the 338 RUM. I already have a 375 RUM in a 700 Rem XCR that i load with 260 gr accubonds and 96 gr of IMR 4350 and i would like to think that with that load and the MK IV 8.5x25x50 leupold that i could take big game at 1000 yds. However, i think that with that big of a round my accuracy may have went down. Any and all help i can get i'd sure appreciate it.

 

[KC 280ack]

I am having a custom tactical rifle built from nighthawk tactical. I'm really having a hard time deciding on the caliber to go with. I know the 300 mag is a very accurate round and may be the caliber i go with but i'm not set on it yet. I'm also thinking of the 300 RUM and the 338 RUM. I already have a 375 RUM in a 700 Rem XCR that i load with 260 gr accubonds and 96 gr of IMR 4350 and i would like to think that with that load and the MK IV 8.5x25x50 leupold that i could take big game at 1000 yds. However, i think that with that big of a round my accuracy may have went down. Any and all help i can get i'd sure appreciate it.

Go to defensive edge and read some on the 338 edge our on this web site its very impresive. And go to Nightforce on the web and look for the vidio on utube defencsive edge does for night force all i can say is wow.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Need more info. What is the purpose of the rifle? Yes the 375 ultra will kill anything at 1000 yards. Must know what the intended purpose is though before making any recomendation. Long range targets, long range hunting, if long range hunting then what animals. Many, many choices. Do you want the fastest meanest thing out there for your purpose or do you have other things to consider.

 

[luwelder798]

Need more info. What is the purpose of the rifle? Yes the 375 ultra will kill anything at 1000 yards. Must know what the intended purpose is though before making any recomendation. Long range targets, long range hunting, if long range hunting then what animals. Many, many choices. Do you want the fastest meanest thing out there for your purpose or do you have other things to consider.

Well I really want a good all around round, which may be impossible. I'd like for it to be a good gun to take hunting long range for deer and elk, if i go bear hunting i plan on taking the 375 ultra. But i'd like to be able to keep up with the folks at the range to, not cutting the same hole but a decent round. I've pretty much convinced myself to go with the 300 wm. It ain't going to knock something off its feet on out there but it will get the job done and be an accurate round to do it with. Plus the 300 would be easier on the barrell and on my wallet than some of the other ones i've been considering. Your thoughts? Thanks for the help.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

If you want a true 1000+ yd rifle I would look at cartridges like the 300 RUM, 338 RUM/Lapua/Edge. The easiest two on your wallet will probably be the 300 RUM and 338 RUM and are both as about a good all around rifle as you will get. My first recomendation would be the 300 RUM. You can get them in the factory Sendero platform which is usually a great shooter right out of the box - am very happy with mine. HS aluminum bedded stock and heavy varmit Sendero contour barrel. When your barrel burns out you have a great platform for a rebarrel build.

The 375 RUM comes up a little short for 1000 yd hunting because of the lack of high BC bullets available (i.e. 260 AB), which run out of velocity down range. I've seen in some other threads that there are some wildcat/custom bullets available with higher BC's. The 300 WM also comes up a little short of 1000 yds with most bullet/load combinations. The 300 RUM will get you about 300 fps more velocity than the WM which is good for about 250 yds more range. On barrel life you can probably expect about 1000 rounds out of the RUM and 1500 out of the WM if shooting max loads.

If your interested in the 300 WM, you might consider the 300 WSM which is very close to the WM in performance, and in fact I can get better performance than a WM from my WSM using RL17. The 300 WSM has much longer barrel life - up to 4000 rounds.

A good 30 cal bullet that will make the 300 WM or WSM 1000+ rifles is the GS HV 177. They have a very good BC and will shoot faster than other bullets. They are also spendy and must be ordered from S Africa.

Hope that helps,

Mark

 

[3fingervic]

I was thinking the same thing. The .300 wm is a great all around caliber IMO. I have one, but I don't have a .375 RUM already. If I was in the original poster's shoes I'd go with a .300wsm.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I agree with what montanarifleman said. Except that the 375 ultramag is an excellent 1000 yard elk rifle with the 350 grain Sierra matchking. BC is well over .7 and will destroy an elk over 1000 yards. My 375-300 ultramag shoots that bullet around 2700 fps depending on the load. Maybe you didn't know about that bullet. It made the 378 Weatherby an awesome long range big game rifle.

 

[Chas1]

+1 with what MontanaRifleman said. I go with 300RUM won't put you in the poor house, decent barrel life.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I agree with what montanarifleman said. Except that the 375 ultramag is an excellent 1000 yard elk rifle with the 350 grain Sierra matchking. BC is well over .7 and will destroy an elk over 1000 yards. My 375-300 ultramag shoots that bullet around 2700 fps depending on the load. Maybe you didn't know about that bullet. It made the 378 Weatherby an awesome long range big game rifle.

I did not know about that bullet and no doubt it would put a serious hurt on whatever it hit. What velocity do SMKs expand at? Running the calc it looks like it would be in the 1700-1800 fps range @ 1000 yds, @ 5000' elevation, but at that velocity with its mass it packs quite a wallop.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I don't know what minimum velocity is for expansion. Run this data because this one expanded with a good exit hole after going through both lungs of an elk. 300 MK out of 338-378 wby, 3058 fps at muzzle, 10,000ft elevation, elk was almost 1200 yards. It was actually high 1180's, low 1190's but I rounded it to 1200. At least we would know that it does expand at this velocity.

I am with you on the 177 grain GS bullet. I can push that bullet 3500 fps in both my 300 ultramags with 28" barrels. The ballistics on that are incredible and the bullet will hold together well at any velocity. It is about the best ballistics available in a factory rifle/bullet combo. I am probably going to use that combo quite a bit next year starting with the caribou hunt.

 

[luwelder798]

If you want a true 1000+ yd rifle I would look at cartridges like the 300 RUM, 338 RUM/Lapua/Edge. The easiest two on your wallet will probably be the 300 RUM and 338 RUM and are both as about a good all around rifle as you will get. My first recomendation would be the 300 RUM. You can get them in the factory Sendero platform which is usually a great shooter right out of the box - am very happy with mine. HS aluminum bedded stock and heavy varmit Sendero contour barrel. When your barrel burns out you have a great platform for a rebarrel build.

The 375 RUM comes up a little short for 1000 yd hunting because of the lack of high BC bullets available (i.e. 260 AB), which run out of velocity down range. I've seen in some other threads that there are some wildcat/custom bullets available with higher BC's. The 300 WM also comes up a little short of 1000 yds with most bullet/load combinations. The 300 RUM will get you about 300 fps more velocity than the WM which is good for about 250 yds more range. On barrel life you can probably expect about 1000 rounds out of the RUM and 1500 out of the WM if shooting max loads.

If your interested in the 300 WM, you might consider the 300 WSM which is very close to the WM in performance, and in fact I can get better performance than a WM from my WSM using RL17. The 300 WSM has much longer barrel life - up to 4000 rounds.

A good 30 cal bullet that will make the 300 WM or WSM 1000+ rifles is the GS HV 177. They have a very good BC and will shoot faster than other bullets. They are also spendy and must be ordered from S Africa.

Hope that helps,

Mark

I've pretty much talked myself into going with the 300 wm. I think it will be a good round to learn to shoot long range with and one of the cheaper ones also. I'm very leary about the short mags and i know my dad would skin me if i bought one. I really think it would be handy to have a short mag maybe for timed shoots. But other than that i can't see how a person would be better by just shortning the brass but thats something i haven't studied very much. I really just thought that the folks making the rounds just figured a way to hoax people into paying more money for the same performance cartridge. I'll for sure look into the bullets you recommended and thanks for the help i appreicate it.

 

[luwelder798]

I agree with what montanarifleman said. Except that the 375 ultramag is an excellent 1000 yard elk rifle with the 350 grain Sierra matchking. BC is well over .7 and will destroy an elk over 1000 yards. My 375-300 ultramag shoots that bullet around 2700 fps depending on the load. Maybe you didn't know about that bullet. It made the 378 Weatherby an awesome long range big game rifle.

Where are you getting the 350 gr SMK? I went on their website but i couldn't find them. Thanks.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I've pretty much talked myself into going with the 300 wm. I think it will be a good round to learn to shoot long range with and one of the cheaper ones also. I'm very leary about the short mags and i know my dad would skin me if i bought one. I really think it would be handy to have a short mag maybe for timed shoots. But other than that i can't see how a person would be better by just shortning the brass but thats something i haven't studied very much. I really just thought that the folks making the rounds just figured a way to hoax people into paying more money for the same performance cartridge. I'll for sure look into the bullets you recommended and thanks for the help i appreicate it.

The 300 WSM and WM are essentially the same ballistically with a slight edge usually going to the WM, but like I said, my 24" barrel 300 WSM with RL17 will out perform most other 300 WM's in a 26" barrel. No hoax really. Of course like everything new there will be a lot of hype to stimulate sales, but I just look at the ballistics. You can do a WSM in a short action which is nice for a carry rifle, but if I were to build one I would go with something a little longer to seat bullets farther out. There's no cost differenence between the two when it comes to cost of rifle or reloadiong components. WSM factory ammo is a little more expensive, but not much. And if your serious about LR, hand loading is the way to go. The biggest difference is 1500 round barrel life vs 4000 round barrel life and that's a big difference. I'll still be on my first barrel when you get yours back from the smtih for it's third barrel at $600 a pop plus the down time which for a good smith may be 6 months to a year. I'm not knocking the WM. It's a great cartridge, but it is what it is, no more no less.

In any case, welcome to the very cool world of LR which will want to consume your life. You'll learn a whole lot about rifles, ballistics, bullets, powder, hand loading and shooting.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I don't know what minimum velocity is for expansion. Run this data because this one expanded with a good exit hole after going through both lungs of an elk. 300 MK out of 338-378 wby, 3058 fps at muzzle, 10,000ft elevation, elk was almost 1200 yards. It was actually high 1180's, low 1190's but I rounded it to 1200. At least we would know that it does expand at this velocity.

I am with you on the 177 grain GS bullet. I can push that bullet 3500 fps in both my 300 ultramags with 28" barrels. The ballistics on that are incredible and the bullet will hold together well at any velocity. It is about the best ballistics available in a factory rifle/bullet combo. I am probably going to use that combo quite a bit next year starting with the caribou hunt.

Ran the numbers on that and that bullet was going about 2035 fps give or take. But based on some other reports, it seems the SMK probably expands lower than 1800 fps.

Are you already shooting the GS bullets? I'm guessing you can do better than 3500 out of a 28" barrel. I plan to experiment with RL17 and the 177's out of my RUM. I think the burn rate out of that cartridge with that bullet may be a good combo. I did experiment with it and 180 E-Tips, and the RL 17 matched Retumbo and H1000 for velocity out of the 300 RUM (about 3400 fps) which surprised me. With the 177's weight and pressure/velocity ratio, I think RL17 may work well.

Actually the GS bullets will shed their petals at higher velocity, but GS planned for this and implies that this is the more desired terminal effect vs staying completly intact. The remaing bullet body expands slightly to a square blunt frontal area creating a lot of tissue damage while passing through. Velocities at which the bullet sheds its petals will create a lot of destructive energy with that shape of projetile passing through flesh and bone. From the GS site...

Further, HV bullets are designed according to the findings of the latest research on terminal bullet performance. This is contrary to the traditional "perfect double caliber mushroom and 100% weight retention" theory. Research done by Duncan MacPherson and documented in his book "Bullet Penetration - Modelling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma", supports the observations we made during field testing of the HV concept.
It has been proven that a high velocity flat fronted cylinder shape will leave a larger primary wound channel than a slower, double caliber mushroom. HV bullets are therefore designed to start mushrooming reliably from much lower speeds than most other premium bullets, typically from around 1000fps. Two to four centimeters of penetration is all that is required to fully expand an HV bullet.
At higher speeds, HV bullets will lose the petals entirely, shedding 12% to 15% of weight and presenting a flat cylinder shape to the direction of movement. The HV concept thus offers, at worst, a good double caliber mushroom, with extremely high retention and, at best, a high speed cylinder shape for dramatic primary wound trauma.

GS CUSTOM BULLETS - FAQ - Expansion and Weight Retention

Sounds like the perfect bullet to me. I'm pumped to try some, but it's gonna hurt in the wallet.