Could you…

Ucsdryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
333
I know hammer bullets are all the rage of LRH forum, but there’s something about lead that flat out gets it done. School me if I’m wrong, but one of the advantages to the hammer design is the ability to push it to extreme speeds that “normal” bullets can’t achieve. I believe it has to do with the design of the bullet, bearing surface, etc. Could you design a similar bullet with a bonded, lead core? A boat tail partition going 20-25% faster would be pretty intriguing for a lot of guys shooting 308s, 30-06, 7mm-08, etc.
 

FrogFire7

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
599
Location
Pennsylvania
I think the extreme speeds come from two factors.

1. Lighter bullets compared to the same length lead core bullets. (Less dense material)

2. Less engraving pressure due to the scalloped design on the outside. (Reduced bearing surface)

I don't have a ton of experience with copper, but can say front the few deer I've shot with hammers and Barnes, I have zero desire to go back to lead core. Incredible how much less meat loss there is, and the animals died just as fast 😊
 

Ucsdryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
333
I think the extreme speeds come from two factors.

1. Lighter bullets compared to the same length lead core bullets. (Less dense material)

2. Less engraving pressure due to the scalloped design on the outside. (Reduced bearing surface)

I don't have a ton of experience with copper, but can say front the few deer I've shot with hammers and Barnes, I have zero desire to go back to lead core. Incredible how much less meat loss there is, and the animals died just as fast 😊
You may be absolutely right, the negative I always hear about solid copper bullets is the potential for not having adequate expansion, especially when you don’t catch any bone, including ribs, on the way in. Also on longer shots when the bullet starts to slow there is a good chance you will not see the same mushrooming as you will when the bullets are at a higher speed. Like I said, this is just a guess because I have never actually used a copper bullet.
 

FrogFire7

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
599
Location
Pennsylvania
I'd say try them at least!

I tend to agree with some of those statements. The downsides often are BC, and as you said potentially impact velocity. I know with hammers the lowest threshold is 1800 fps (somebody will correct me if I'm wrong). I do some long range shooting on steel but in reality my range limit on game comes before my bullets gets to 1800 fps anyway. So it wasn't an issue for me.
 

Quintus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,128
There are volumes of testimonials on monos, Hammers more so that give a good indication of performance at most distances. About all you can do at this point if those don't answer your questions is to give them a try yourself. I have killed quite a few critters with Barnes monos with no issues and pretty impressive performance. After reading about the hammers they are going to be in all my hunting loads this year. The accuracy claims and easy tuneability were spot on. Now I will see for myself on performance. Eventually you just have to try stuff.
 

flyguy1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
395
Location
Montana
I hunted with Barnes for years, and had no problems. However, the Hammer results from Africa speak volumes, and my former gunsmith, who makes his living making LR rifles, swears by them.

Also, not so sure about Barnes now that it changed hands; just like Marlin, we'll see.

Switching all our rifles to Hammers. Steve probably getting tired of me saying, "What about this one?"
 

Ucsdryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
333
There are volumes of testimonials on monos, Hammers more so that give a good indication of performance at most distances. About all you can do at this point if those don't answer your questions is to give them a try yourself. I have killed quite a few critters with Barnes monos with no issues and pretty impressive performance. After reading about the hammers they are going to be in all my hunting loads this year. The accuracy claims and easy tuneability were spot on. Now I will see for myself on performance. Eventually you just have to try stuff.

Not questioning the bullet…just wondering there’s an opportunity to branch into a different market. The BC thing is a big deal as well and something I didn’t even think about when posting this. The 180eld-m I shoot buck the wind like crazy. If hammer could figure out how to make a 180eld-m TYPE bullet that goes 150fps faster, I would be a Bona fide leg humper!!!!!
 

ButterBean

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
5,508
Location
West Terre Haute Indiana
You may be absolutely right, the negative I always hear about solid copper bullets is the potential for not having adequate expansion, especially when you don’t catch any bone, including ribs, on the way in. Also on longer shots when the bullet starts to slow there is a good chance you will not see the same mushrooming as you will when the bullets are at a higher speed. Like I said, this is just a guess because I have never actually used a copper bullet.
This has been resolved with the Hammers, They work I promise you but you will need to clear your head
 

ButterBean

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
5,508
Location
West Terre Haute Indiana
Not questioning the bullet…just wondering there’s an opportunity to branch into a different market. The BC thing is a big deal as well and something I didn’t even think about when posting this. The 180eld-m I shoot buck the wind like crazy. If hammer could figure out how to make a 180eld-m TYPE bullet that goes 150fps faster, I would be a Bona fide leg humper!!!!!
That's easy , Do you need to hold for the wind with the 180 ELD-M ?
 

ButterBean

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
5,508
Location
West Terre Haute Indiana
I know hammer bullets are all the rage of LRH forum, but there’s something about lead that flat out gets it done. School me if I’m wrong, but one of the advantages to the hammer design is the ability to push it to extreme speeds that “normal” bullets can’t achieve. I believe it has to do with the design of the bullet, bearing surface, etc. Could you design a similar bullet with a bonded, lead core? A boat tail partition going 20-25% faster would be pretty intriguing for a lot of guys shooting 308s, 30-06, 7mm-08, etc.
If it could be done Weatherby would have already done it, FWIW Weatherby received their first order of Hammers last month
 

Ucsdryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
333
That's easy , Do you need to hold for the wind with the 180 ELD-M ?
Yep, but here’s the reality. I am not a great wind caller…better than some, not as good as others. A high BC bullet has left drift than a low BC bullet, therefore requiring less correction and making for a more accurate shot.


Look, I’m not arguing they hammer isn’t a great bullet, just wonder if you could put a lead core in the hammer design and make a DIFFERENT type of bullet that is also great.
 

ButterBean

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
5,508
Location
West Terre Haute Indiana
Yep, but here’s the reality. I am not a great wind caller…better than some, not as good as others. A high BC bullet has left drift than a low BC bullet, therefore requiring less correction and making for a more accurate shot.


Look, I’m not arguing they hammer isn’t a great bullet, just wonder if you could put a lead core in the hammer design and make a DIFFERENT type of bullet that is also great.
I'm not arguing either Bud and I meant no offense, I just simply stated if it could be done it would have been done already I would think , There is a give and take with everything, I disregarded Hammers for years and was a die hard cup and core guy, But for me personally I find them to be the better mousetrap
 

Tidus56

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
1,377
You may be absolutely right, the negative I always hear about solid copper bullets is the potential for not having adequate expansion, especially when you don’t catch any bone, including ribs, on the way in.
Like you I don’t have tons of experience with coppers, but I hunted where they were required. I was dreading having to use the copper bullet company down the roads bullets. Then someone pointed me to these hammers. I used one on a bison hit it and DRT. When we saw the damage I was impressed. The petals that break off on the hammer hunters did a number and the shank passed all the way through.
I am not a die hard guy of any bullet I know a few I won’t use but I was impressed with how easy the hammer tuned, how accurate it was and very surprised with the damage. I look forward to testing their long range capability. I say give them a try if you’re interested, what’s it hurt.

I just realized I missed your point about the new type of bullet. So some of what I said doesnt really hit what you asked sorry.
 

QuietTexan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
732
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
A boat tail partition going 20-25% faster would be pretty intriguing for a lot of guys shooting 308s, 30-06, 7mm-08, etc.

If you want to get a 150gn Partition going 20-25% faster than from a .308...... shoot a Win Mag. If a caliber (308, 7-08, 30-06) doesn't do what you want it to, the easiest answer is get the correct chamber. Pounding a square solution into a round hole... I don't get it.

300 BLK
30-06
300 RUM

I can use any 30 cal bullet, and can hit any velocity between 900 and 4000 FPS. Function drives form, not the other way around.
 
Top