Coppermelt, what am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by Boman, Jun 13, 2005.

  1. Boman

    Boman Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen,
    I finally got around to using the bottle of Coppermelt I bought a few months back. I used it on my custom .340wby. This wears a Lilja barrel. I fired only 12 rounds through it and it was clean before I started. I took it home to try out this infamous coppermelt. 31 patches later and 5 patches of Barnes to get the patches to come out white.. What is going on? Why did it take this long and so many patches? This is the first time I used the bottle, it had never been opened.. Also what are your procedures when using Coppermelt? I used a .270cal nylon brush wrapped in a pro shot cotton patch. with about 8 drops of Coppermelt.. Thanks
     
  2. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry I don't have an answer...I bought a bottle and went to the range...within 5 min of using the stuff it got retired! I found within a few strokes my patch was toast! so I went back to the old fashion way :) on the shelf it sits. I ran the copper melt through 4 rifles that I had cleaned using regular cleaning chems.. and not one patch came out blue...and to get the bore in that condition it only takes me 5 min the old fashion way.
     
  3. Boman

    Boman Well-Known Member

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    Long range,
    I feel the same way.. It will be retired or sold if I don't find out what I'm doing wrong.. I didn't have any instructions cause my bottle didn't come with any and their site is down, but I thought I did everything right from what people on this site said.. Hell I could have used Blue Wonder and ran it through the bore. let it sit for 5mins. patch it out and be done for the day!
     
  4. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I haven't ever used coppermelt but I use Sweets in my factory guns with good results , in any of my custom barrels Shooters Choice/kroil does a great job
     
  5. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Bowman I have a couple of questions then maybe I can answer yours.

    #1 What kind of core does your brush have? If it's not steel the patches will always be blue because the coppermelt will eat the bronze from the core and turn the patch blue. Brass core same results.
    #2 What cal patch are you using? If there is too tight a fit you will be toasting the patches too soon. 8 drops is a good amount unless it's a very large patch and it's not getting wet enough. Try a 30 cal brush with a 33 cal patch and wet the first couple of patches good but dont soak them to the point of wasting it and then reduce the amount of coppermelt after the first say 3 patches because there will be some left in there from the earlier patches.
    The object is to use a brush patch combo that fits snugly enough to fill the bore riflings and all but not be so tight the patch is shot after 4 strokes. You need to get at least 10 to 15 strokes with a patch for the optimum cleaning that way a patch abosorbs all the copper it can before it gets tossed.
    All my rigs come clean less than 8 patches with 20 to 30 rounds fired down the tube since last cleaning.
    I did see what your talking about with a friends 7 rem mag but it was the 3rd time he had used coppermelt. His barrel is very worn with a rough section directly behind the throat.
    The first time we used coppermelt on it it was clean in 8 patches and the second time was the same but the third time he had been shooting some different bullets known for copper fouling ( barnes ) and this time it refused to be cleaned. We assumed it was the rough section had harbored so much coppere in the cracks that it was going to be a challenge and after soaking with 2 other checmicals for a period of time and scrubbing with the brush patch combo in between we got it out and now it cleans like normal again.
    Hope all that helps a little.
     
  6. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Also what are your procedures when using Coppermelt? I used a .270cal nylon brush wrapped in a pro shot cotton patch. with about 8 drops of Coppermelt..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This seems like a question that you should have asked before you wasted 31 patches. I have never heard of anyone using this many patches before-even on a rough factory barrel. A custom Lilja should take about 2-4 patches max.
    I don't know exactly why it took 31 patches, but maybe your barrel wasn't as clean as you thought it was before you started. THis has been very common with coppermelt. People will clean their gun with Butch's bore shine until it comes out white and then they think it's done. THen I tell them to clean it again with Coppermelt and the patch comes out sky blue.
    Another possibility is that you may have gotten a contaminated bottle or pipette, or the enzyme may have been killed by some other reason in transit. Or, like 7rumloader suggested, the brass tip of your rod or center brass part of the brush maybe gave you a bad reading.

    Anyway, your experience was not like anyone else's I have heard. What I would do is shoot the gun again and then see if it still takes that many patches to get clean.

    If you need more help on procedures, check out the coppermelt post I made last fall.
    good luck.
     
  7. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I ran the copper melt through 4 rifles that I had cleaned using regular cleaning chems.. and not one patch came out blue...and to get the bore in that condition it only takes me 5 min the old fashion way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    OK, so let me get this straight. You gave up on coppermelt as a gun cleaner because you used too tight of a patch, and you used it on guns that were already clean so that told you that it was a bad cleaner?

    How could it prove itself to you if it never got to clean out the stuff it was designed to dissolve because there was none of it in your barrel to start with?!

    No matter, I am sure you can find someone who will use it correctly and will be happy to relieve you of the remainder of your bottle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  8. Boman

    Boman Well-Known Member

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    7Rumloader,
    #1 The core of the nylon brush is steel.
    #2 The patch size was .270-.30cal. It fit tight enough to squeak but not difficult to push down..
    From the sounds of it I needed to scrub more.. I was only using 5-6 complete strokes each patch.

    Goodgrouper,
    Well thats a good point, but I felt like I understood how to use the cleaner. I read your post and back when the coppermelt site was working I had read the directions from the site. Plus I wouldn't say I wasted them. I used them.. If you really want to help me then help don't insult me..

    I don't have a bore scope so I can't tell you for sure that it was clean. But I cleaned with Barnes CR10 till the patches are white. Thats the best I've used so far. I know you can use Butches and get white patches and still have copper in the barrel. That why I use Butches, then Barnes.

    Lastly, my method of using the coppermelt out of the can was to pour some of it into a unused squeeze bottle. Then squeeze a few drops from it onto the patches.. Could this be a problem?
     
  9. jsali

    jsali Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Lastly, my method of using the coppermelt out of the can was to pour some of it into a unused squeeze bottle. Then squeeze a few drops from it onto the patches.. Could this be a problem?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is my understanding that the enzymes are very sensitive to contamination and that it is to be used only from the factory container. I would try using some of it out of the original container and see if there is a difference. Your bottle should have come with little dropper to use.
     
  10. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Well Bowman you answered my questions amd from the sound of it you are doing it pretty well with the exception of too few strokes. Try doing at least 10 to 15 strokes per patch and see what happens.
    On the squeking when you push it through I have never had this except when I used a 22 cal brush and patch in 22.250's but it was a little tight pushing it and shreded patches too fast ( I didn't have a 17 cal brush and rod yet ). You may need to tune your brush patch combo a little for optimum performance if you can't get 10 to 15 strokes with your current setup but try it first.
    [ QUOTE ]
    Lastly, my method of using the coppermelt out of the can was to pour some of it into a unused squeeze bottle. Then squeeze a few drops from it onto the patches.. Could this be a problem?

    [/ QUOTE ] This could most definitly be a problem like johnny 5 already stated. There was supposed to be a dropper included with it that you use so the enzymes won't be contaminated and killed.
    Lastly your going about it in the right manner but need more strokes and use the dropper if you have it and if not find a sterile one from a medical supply place and use it to prevent contamination and rule out that possibility.
    The stuff really works great in all my guns and my friends that have tried it also love it! Hope it works for you soon!
    Keep us posted on your findings.
     
  11. Boman

    Boman Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen,
    The bottle I purchased did not come with a dropper...I guess I should go out and by a dropper and use the solution straight from the bottle? I guess I was worried that way would contaminate the main bottle??

    I will go shoot and use this method with more strokes down the barrel and see what happens. Thanks guys
     
  12. Glock119

    Glock119 Well-Known Member

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    Ha guys just a heads up, but with my daughters brand new Rem 270, it also took 30+patches the first few times. Not that they were coming out all blue but they were still dirty.

    Some where around the 50-75 shot count during break-in it started to use less and after the 100 mark it dropped down to around 8-10 patches.

    Now she shoots 20 rounds and cleans with the same about 8 patches. Maybe its due to how ruff the bore is and as barrel was broke in and smoothed out it now takes less time and patches to clean.

    Custom barrels are already hand lapped smooth thus the reason we're able to clean them easier with less patches from the start. Stick with it and give the stuff a chance and you may yet be happy with the end results.

    Ben
     
  13. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Boman,
    My intent was not to insult in any way. I just meant that it is unfortunate that you wasted (used) 1/3 of your bottle which is roughly $10 before the red flag went up. This wonderful product was hard to find for awhile and it is just unfortunate that you had this experience with it.

    After reading your other post, I am willing to bet that the bottle you used to put Coppermelt in was probably contaminated and killed more than half of the enzyme before it ever went into your barrel. I realize you didn't get the instructions with your bottle as that would have told you the solution for your problem long before it ever became a problem.

    If you need an extra pipette, I have many many of them and will gladly ship one to you.

    If it seems that I got a little nervy, I apologize. It is just that a whole ton of misleading biases, rhetoric and myth get passed along in this industry because someone who isn't learned about the product or matter speaks of it like they know everything about it and they put it down before they really give it a good, fair try. Like Grandpappy Smith's campfire bull---- that he spreads along to his grandchildren and then they pass it along to their grandchildren and before you know it, a good idea got a mis-earned bad name.

    One such product was the Browning Boss system. It was probably the most innovative invention in the last 40 years for reloaders and especially factory ammo shooters. The ability to tune the vibrations in your barrel so that the bullet leaves the muzzle in the most opportune time in it's occilation was truly the cat's meow and it is what all us reloaders do when we "tweek" our reloads to the rifle. But alas, it showed up in Grandpappy's deer camp one fall, and all grandpappy did was look at it and tell his fellow hunter that he got suckered into a marketing scheme and real men don't have do-dads on the end of their barrels and before you knew it, the boss was virtually eliminated because Grandpappy was too frightened of the new technology to try it before he bashed it. I am not saying that is what you are doing, I am just saying that I would hate to have that happen to Coppermelt. I think I would sell all my guns and go into skiing if I had to go back to the old fashioned way of cleaning guns. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  14. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    All you fellas shooting factory sandpaper bores should really look into David Tubb's Final Finish break in and throat maintenance systems. Your tube will come out smooth as a custom barrel, and then you will use 1/10 of the Coppermelt to get them clean. It is the second best product I have promoted here on LRH. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif