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<blockquote data-quote="Steve Shelp" data-source="post: 1017" data-attributes="member: 22"><p>Denny,</p><p>First off nice work. I use to be a designer/draftsman and worked with AutoCAD for a number of years and they were just expanding into the 3D modeling when I got out of the business. But I still dabble with it still once in awhile.</p><p> </p><p>You made mention about possibly making this stock, but that the picture isn't to scale. Is it at least proportionally correct? If so there are a couple of things I see with your design that jumps out at me based on experience that may be a problem for you to consider before you start writing the checks out.</p><p></p><p><strong>1 - balance point of the rifle</strong></p><p> With the short forearm and the block located right in the middle and I'm sure a longer than normal barrel hanging out there the butt section will be on the light side. This will cause up/down grouping in my experience. Yes you could start adding lead in holes drilled into the butt section and such to compensate but then you end up with an usually heavy rifle when it my not be needed. You're going to want some overall weight there for overall stability of the rifle (and cut down on recoil) but not more than is needed just to make it shoot.</p><p></p><p><strong>2 - Slope angle of the bottom of the butt</strong></p><p>if this rifle is solely intended to be shot from a bench (the design gives this insinuation) then it should be on the heavy side(as mentioned above) and is normally shot with minimal if any contact (meant - free recoil) of the shooter. When this method of shooting is used normally a flatter and almost parallel butt section is used. If the rifle is a little lighter in weigh and meant to be held while firing then the slope angle like you have is used to give you elevation adjustment. But too much slope gives up/down in your grouping if you don't have the same rifle hold every time. The bottom line is the less the slope the more "forgiving" the rifle is under recoil and the less it needs to be held. That's BR doctrine 101 and doesn't 100% apply to field use though. The original Six design has a slight slope on it but not as excessive of what is shown. The Tooley MBR stock I think has a 5/8" difference in up/down thickness from the pistol grip to the heel of the stock. </p><p></p><p><strong>Pistol Grip to Heel shape </strong></p><p>Depending on what rear bag design you use would also dictate the shape of the heel of the stock. Some of the newer bags are what they call the 3 stitch models that have a gap between the 2 bunny ears and work great with stocks that have a flat on the bottom. The Six design stock your looking at has a lot thicker and much more rounded bottom and prefers the large rabbit eared sand bags. Not to say they can't be used with the other bag design, but that is the trend based on my experience and shooters I know that have them. Sometime these larger rabbit eared bag interfere with shooters hold and cheek weld depending on your setup. Unfortunately what particular method you would prefer is only learned from seat time behind rifles and making your own decision. So I can't tell you which one to use. They both work great for the shooters that like them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Width of the forearm</strong></p><p>Wider is better (to steal the Grand Prix slogan) but also requires a more bulky front rest to hold it. If your rifle has any weight to it and that wide forearm it could cause some wobble between the front rest vertical post and the base of your front rest due to the leverage advantage of that wide forearm. I've seen many hand built rests to over come this for field use, so just think about it before building. Also when sitting at the bench in the field you have to be able to react to where the game appears at quickly and easily. So keep the size/weight of your front rest setup in mind. Also if you ever decide to shoot competition with this rifle 8" is the maximum allowed forearm width and your field rest setup may or may not be legal. So keep that in mind when building. Most use a 5" width like is used on the McMillian 50HBR stock, and sand bags are readily available for this width. When you go over this width you start getting into expense and availability issues for sandbags and rest tops to support those wide setups. But if your crafty with your own hands and have a workshop you can do it yourself within reason. But if you're planning on buying all of this equipment from vendors this could be an issue for you to consider.</p><p></p><p><strong> Comb height to support raised scope </strong></p><p> The horizontal clamping block design (you seem to be favoring right now) normally has a taller profile due to the clamping bolts being on top of the block. So your scope mounts are going to have to be much higher to get the scope clearance off the top of the block. You might want to consider an adjustable cheek piece if you are the type that prefers to hold the rifle while shooting to compensate for this raised height. This has the added advantage of being able to lower the cheek piece while inserting your cleaning rod and not having to "bow" your cleaning rod to gain entry into the chamber area of the barrel. You do not want your cleaning rod to bow while cleaning. There's a price to pay for this and it could be a new barrel in the most extreme cases. In your previous post with the pictures of the blocks, the block that had the clamping bolts going crossways through the bottom of the block and had the area milled out in the middle of the upper half of the block is done for the reasons stated above. The milled out section still allows the scope bell clearance and the clamping bolts are down in the stock so it maintains the low profile. </p><p></p><p>Hope this helps and good luck with your project,</p><p>Steve</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steve Shelp, post: 1017, member: 22"] Denny, First off nice work. I use to be a designer/draftsman and worked with AutoCAD for a number of years and they were just expanding into the 3D modeling when I got out of the business. But I still dabble with it still once in awhile. You made mention about possibly making this stock, but that the picture isn't to scale. Is it at least proportionally correct? If so there are a couple of things I see with your design that jumps out at me based on experience that may be a problem for you to consider before you start writing the checks out. [B]1 - balance point of the rifle[/B] With the short forearm and the block located right in the middle and I'm sure a longer than normal barrel hanging out there the butt section will be on the light side. This will cause up/down grouping in my experience. Yes you could start adding lead in holes drilled into the butt section and such to compensate but then you end up with an usually heavy rifle when it my not be needed. You're going to want some overall weight there for overall stability of the rifle (and cut down on recoil) but not more than is needed just to make it shoot. [B]2 - Slope angle of the bottom of the butt[/B] if this rifle is solely intended to be shot from a bench (the design gives this insinuation) then it should be on the heavy side(as mentioned above) and is normally shot with minimal if any contact (meant - free recoil) of the shooter. When this method of shooting is used normally a flatter and almost parallel butt section is used. If the rifle is a little lighter in weigh and meant to be held while firing then the slope angle like you have is used to give you elevation adjustment. But too much slope gives up/down in your grouping if you don't have the same rifle hold every time. The bottom line is the less the slope the more "forgiving" the rifle is under recoil and the less it needs to be held. That's BR doctrine 101 and doesn't 100% apply to field use though. The original Six design has a slight slope on it but not as excessive of what is shown. The Tooley MBR stock I think has a 5/8" difference in up/down thickness from the pistol grip to the heel of the stock. [B]Pistol Grip to Heel shape [/B] Depending on what rear bag design you use would also dictate the shape of the heel of the stock. Some of the newer bags are what they call the 3 stitch models that have a gap between the 2 bunny ears and work great with stocks that have a flat on the bottom. The Six design stock your looking at has a lot thicker and much more rounded bottom and prefers the large rabbit eared sand bags. Not to say they can't be used with the other bag design, but that is the trend based on my experience and shooters I know that have them. Sometime these larger rabbit eared bag interfere with shooters hold and cheek weld depending on your setup. Unfortunately what particular method you would prefer is only learned from seat time behind rifles and making your own decision. So I can't tell you which one to use. They both work great for the shooters that like them. [B]Width of the forearm[/B] Wider is better (to steal the Grand Prix slogan) but also requires a more bulky front rest to hold it. If your rifle has any weight to it and that wide forearm it could cause some wobble between the front rest vertical post and the base of your front rest due to the leverage advantage of that wide forearm. I've seen many hand built rests to over come this for field use, so just think about it before building. Also when sitting at the bench in the field you have to be able to react to where the game appears at quickly and easily. So keep the size/weight of your front rest setup in mind. Also if you ever decide to shoot competition with this rifle 8" is the maximum allowed forearm width and your field rest setup may or may not be legal. So keep that in mind when building. Most use a 5" width like is used on the McMillian 50HBR stock, and sand bags are readily available for this width. When you go over this width you start getting into expense and availability issues for sandbags and rest tops to support those wide setups. But if your crafty with your own hands and have a workshop you can do it yourself within reason. But if you’re planning on buying all of this equipment from vendors this could be an issue for you to consider. [B] Comb height to support raised scope [/B] The horizontal clamping block design (you seem to be favoring right now) normally has a taller profile due to the clamping bolts being on top of the block. So your scope mounts are going to have to be much higher to get the scope clearance off the top of the block. You might want to consider an adjustable cheek piece if you are the type that prefers to hold the rifle while shooting to compensate for this raised height. This has the added advantage of being able to lower the cheek piece while inserting your cleaning rod and not having to "bow" your cleaning rod to gain entry into the chamber area of the barrel. You do not want your cleaning rod to bow while cleaning. There's a price to pay for this and it could be a new barrel in the most extreme cases. In your previous post with the pictures of the blocks, the block that had the clamping bolts going crossways through the bottom of the block and had the area milled out in the middle of the upper half of the block is done for the reasons stated above. The milled out section still allows the scope bell clearance and the clamping bolts are down in the stock so it maintains the low profile. Hope this helps and good luck with your project, Steve [/QUOTE]
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