SOLD/EXPIRED Comparing the 6.5 shorts

[LeddSlinger]

Not patting myself on the back at all. I didn't design the cartridges. That's just how they perform.

There's a lot more to bullet velocity than case capacity and powder charge weight.

The fact that elkaholic stated that an improved case shoulder makes a rifle cartridge more accurate is completely incorrect. That has nothing to do with accuracy. Case life? Sure. But accuracy? No. If that was how things worked, everything would have an improved shoulder and the .308 Win and 223 cartridges would be among the least accurate rounds with their 20 and 23 degree shoulders respectively. But we all know how most any rifle chambered in either of those rounds is usually extremely accurate


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[elkaholic]

I have also heard the WSM can be finicky, I am happy mine is not one of them. Speaking from memory, I can't recall a single load going over MOA; maybe I got lucky? The COAL is a problem for a dude running a short action, I do agree with that. I set mine up as a single-slinger just because I knew it would be a problem I didn't want to deal with.


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No question that the WSM is the velocity king and a great round. If I were building a single shot,I would probably build one with a LONG throat that would match the 160 Matrix length so that the base of the boat tail and body lined up with the base of the case neck..............Rich

 

[Scot E]

Is what it is. The chronograph doesn't lie. Actually it was shot over two different chronographs for verification...

Just the same as how my 338-375 Ruger can push a 250gr Berger VLD out of a 26" barrel at 2930 fps with only 74 gr of powder (RL-17 as well). It can even hit 3000 fps with another grain added, but accuracy wasnt there.

Now ask yourself, how much powder does a 338 Lapua have to burn to get the same speed with a 250gr bullet? To answer that for you, it is around 90+gr of powder and those speeds are mostly only seen from people using 27" or longer barrels on a 338 Lapua. But wait! Is that possible that bullets can go faster with less powder??? You bet it is.

So your mockery of my speed claims regarding the 6.5 Rem Mag is surely rooted in sheer ignorance and inexperience.

He is likely doubting your pressures more than anything else. If I were you I would take it easy a bit. Rich is about as experienced as it gets on this site. You may want to listen up and learn something or save a limb or eye or something....

Scot E.

 

[Scot E]

Rich, I know I've seen the list of what needs to be done as far as case forming but can't find it. Do you have that info handy that you can re-post?

I've been following the 4s pretty closely and am very impressed with it but there is quite a bit of case forming there too and guys are getting some variation between successful forming and results with diffrent manufacturers. Until they get headstamped brass this is a negative for the 4s too. If you have the cash you can be already formed brass from copper creek but for those wanting/needing to do the forming themselves this is something to consider.
I've loved following both of your 6.5 sherman projects!

Finally found it!

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/6-5-ss-sherman-shortmag-q-129771/

 

[southernundertaker]

Ok guys I am going to jump in on this one and yes can be a little ignorant! Not sure what you are after and I may not completely understand the lingo of 6.5 shorts but have you considered a 6.5x 47, easy to load, no brass work and will shoot a 140 grain bullet with extreme accuracy. May not be the perfect elk load but will take a Muley and Whitetail with no problem.

Just my two cents!!

 

[elkaholic]

Not patting myself on the back at all. I didn't design the cartridges. That's just how they perform.

There's a lot more to bullet velocity than case capacity and powder charge weight.

The fact that elkaholic stated that an improved case shoulder makes a rifle cartridge more accurate is completely incorrect. That has nothing to do with accuracy. Case life? Sure. But accuracy? No. If that was how things worked, everything would have an improved shoulder and the .308 Win and 223 cartridges would be among the least accurate rounds with their 20 and 23 degree shoulders respectively. But we all know how most any rifle chambered in either of those rounds is usually extremely accurate


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I mentioned several things that were affected by neck length, body taper, and shoulder angle and I didn't mean that they were all inclusive. You are correct that shoulder angle has little, or nothing, to do with accuracy............Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Finally found it!

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/6-5-ss-sherman-shortmag-q-129771/

Just getting back on site. Glad that you found it...........Rich

 

[o2bwest]

What length of barrel is ideal for the 6.5 SS, and how short do you think you can go and still get velocity over 3000fps? I'm thinking this caliber would make a sexy short-ish barreled mountain rifle.

 

[elkaholic]

What length of barrel is ideal for the 6.5 SS, and how short do you think you can go and still get velocity over 3000fps? I'm thinking this caliber would make a sexy short-ish barreled mountain rifle.

A 20" barrel would easily make 3000 with the 140's and you might make it with a 150. As far as ideal, I guess it depends on your goal? You will gain around 20-25' per inch of barrel. PM me for a phone # if you want to chat..........rich

 

[bill123]

OP mentioned 6.5 saum and 6.5 4S. My understanding is that 6.5 saum 4s is GAP's version of the 6.5 Saum. Is the 6.5 saum 4s and 6.5 4s the same thing?

 

[elkaholic]

OP mentioned 6.5 saum and 6.5 4S. My understanding is that 6.5 saum 4s is GAP's version of the 6.5 Saum. Is the 6.5 saum 4s and 6.5 4s the same thing?

yes

 

[mgood]

What length of barrel is ideal for the 6.5 SS, and how short do you think you can go and still get velocity over 3000fps? I'm thinking this caliber would make a sexy short-ish barreled mountain rifle.

A 20" barrel would easily make 3000 with the 140's and you might make it with a 150. As far as ideal, I guess it depends on your goal? You will gain around 20-25' per inch of barrel.

Oh boy . . .
I'm not even that ambitious by this standard. 2900-3000 fps with 142 gr AccuBond LR from a 22-24" barrel and a short (308 Win size) action sounds like a dream rifle to me. Basically duplicate (or slightly exceed ) the 6.5-06 performance in a gun that's about 2.5" shorter.

 

[mgood]

Another one to consider is the 6.5 Remington Magnum....

Please see title: "Comparing the 6.5 SHORTS"

Old thread. Before this became a flame fest, I had the same question. The 6.5 Rem Mag has a COAL of 2.800". I think the cartridge was doomed by the carbine-length rifles it was offered in, but with a 24-26" barrel, would it not be comparable to the SS?

6.5 Remington Magnum Load Data

Just trying to make sure I've explored all the possibilities before I make the jump into what, for me, is the unknown territory of building a custom rifle around a wildcat cartridge.

 

[elkaholic]

Old thread. Before this became a flame fest, I had the same question. The 6.5 Rem Mag has a COAL of 2.800". I think the cartridge was doomed by the carbine-length rifles it was offered in, but with a 24-26" barrel, would it not be comparable to the SS?

6.5 Remington Magnum Load Data

Just trying to make sure I've explored all the possibilities before I make the jump into what, for me, is the unknown territory of building a custom rifle around a wildcat cartridge.

It will not keep up with the SS even with equal barrel lengths, and especially with a 2.800 coal.......Rich