Cold weather lube.

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by 4ked Horn, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Hi everyone. This is a copy of a post I placed on another site with almost no response. True it is about a shotgun but I could really use some input from others who have had a similar problem and found a fix.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I could really use your help here. I won't go into the history of how I came to be the owner of a Beretta Pintail but I have one and I am satisfied with it except for the fact that it cycles sluggishly when I have less than 100 rounds through it. In freezing or near freezing weather this sluggish behavior becomes noticeable after 20 rounds and by 30 rounds the bolt stops its forward motion as the shell lifter is in its lift cycle.

    I tried running the gun completely dry of lube and I also stretched the recoil spring two inches longer than its relaxed length when removed from the gun.

    It seems that the powder residue is what is gumming up the bearing surfaces between the bolt body (mostly on top of the bolt) and the inside of the receiver.

    What should I do? I can try another ammo (I heard that Federal makes a clean burning steel shot load). Should I use MORE lube than in warm weather and if so which one? Grease or oil and why? Is it an option to have either the inside of the receiver or the outside of the bolt body hard chromed?

    Help!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well there it is. I'm all ears.
     
  2. Bob S.

    Bob S. Well-Known Member

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    4ked horn - I had a Ithica 20 ga that had a similar problem in really cold wheather. I cleaned it real good and then used a dry graphite powder on it and it seemed to work unless it was very wet outside. I killed thousands of ducks with that gun and was still going strong when I got rid of it.
     
  3. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    Another idea is to use BreakFree. It doesn't get real thick in cold weather & tends to keep powder residue dissolved. This was the secret to keeping the old AutoMag pistol running in hot or cold weather. Good Luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
  4. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Me thinks this is more of a fouling issue then a lube issue. Your action is gumming up. Change to a cleaner burning powder first. If that doesn't work, increase the port pressure. This should get the action working 'faster'.

    Maybe a recoil spring change is in order????

    For any weather, I use synthetic grease. Grey tube, clear in colour. Called synthetic lube and available just about everywhere. I have yet to have that go hard in some cold and wet climate. I also use the oil made by the same company.

    Jerry
     
  5. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Hi Jer

    [ QUOTE ]
    Me thinks this is more of a fouling issue then a lube issue.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is what I am quickly begining to believe is the problem. Mostly because the gun fails to cycle even after the gun warms back up to room temp when the bolt is pulled to the rear and released by hand. However I am currently experimenting with using more lube (Remoil) than normal in an attempt to keep this excessive fouling broken up.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Change to a cleaner burning powder first.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't reload steel but my friend Gonehuntingagain said that the guys on a waterfoul forum he visits seem to think Federals "super steel" loads are burning real clean. I will try these as soon as I run low on the ammo I already have (soon).

    [ QUOTE ]
    If that doesn't work, increase the port pressure.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What is this and how would I go about doing it?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe a recoil spring change is in order????

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's on the list.

    Thanks for the info. I have never heard of "port pressure" so I am interested to hear what you have to share about this.
     
  6. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    I think I know what Jerry is getting at - increase port pressure would be accomplished by opening up the gas port (like on a Rem 1100) or by using a powder that is more optimal for a gas operated action - too bad the pintail is an inertia/recoil powered action like the Benelli actions.
     
  7. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    I'm wit'cha. I will investigate to see if I can retard the bolt movement a fraction of a second. Maybe the Sure Cycle is the solution.
     
  8. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the problem is in the return spring (unless it is weak - no way to really measure) since you can push it in and out without it feeling like it is 'gummed' up. I guess the cheapest way to tell would to borrow Dave's or order a replacement from Brownells when you order your gunstock tools (sure cycle unit is $155). They should have the springs listed in the back of the catalog in the replacement parts section.
     
  9. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    If the action fails to close when operated by hand, time for a new recoil spring. Or else, something is rubbing or jammed in there. Most SG have nothing in the path of the bolt so would lean more towards a weak spring.

    Another issue could be rust in the location where the recoil spring lives. I have a Rem 878 which works very well until it gets wet, then the tube the spring lives in grows rust. A royal pain to clean out but once done, back to its loveable self.

    Have you stripped it down and done a complete scrub?

    Most modern powders burn cleanly that I doubt that is the issue, especially in factory shells. If an action will not cycle by hand, then I would go with spring or internal resistance.

    Jerry
     
  10. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Jerry. I will try to describe what I meant earlier about it not cycling by hand.

    When I pull the bolt handle to the rear and let go the bolt will begin to move forward untill such time as it also begins to lift the shell lifter. This portion of the mechanisim is a rearward and upward force against the bolt carrier. It is this point that is the most slugish or the point where the bolt stops. A quick forward assist usually gets it over the hump and it then moves forward to lock up.

    When the gun is freshly clean this problem is non existant. Previously when the gun was run without lube the problem crept back. Faster in the cold humid environment than in a warm dry climate. That is when I decided to try extra lube to see if it infact was powder residue build up. My though is along the lines of sanding metal or honing a knife with oil on the paper ot stone. It is there to keep the particulates "floating" to prevent the abrasive from clogging. That test is pending.

    The gun is in very good condition otherwise. The recoil spring tube and piston are spotless and polished and lightly lubed. The internal mechanisim of the bolt assembly is loose untill lock up and the bolt head and lock up bar are hard chromed (which is what made me think of this option for the inside surface od the receiver body.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Most modern powders burn cleanly that I doubt that is the issue, especially in factory shells.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This last time hunting I actually felt what seemed to be unburned powder hitting my face twice. We will have to keep an eye on that.
     
  11. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Most modern powders burn cleanly that I doubt that is the issue, especially in factory shells.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We are shooting steel waterfowl factory loads which seem to be the dirtiest burning shells on the face of the planet! Some of the shells are a few years old, and maybe that is the problem (my Benelli SBE is not quite as dirty with brand new shells). But after less than a 1/2 box of shells, the action shouldn't be this dirty.