mo
Well-Known Member
I don't clean my brass very often, but when I do the SS media does the best job of any product I've ever tried, and tried a bunch of them.
Cleaning Shell cases.....Tumblers or ultrasonic cleaners ???
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it does MO, but SS looks like a logistical nightmare to me.
It's a combination of every bad part of every method..
And now you have not only wet brass to worry about, but wet bench, wet counters, wet tumbler, a yucky dish sop bottle, lemon shine granules, measuring spoons, moldy sifters, moldy bucket, and moldy media. Haul it all outside to dry, and clean up the inside mess till tomorrow?
Then your brass is clean enough to check your lipstick and run it into your dies, except, you have to coat every one with sizing lube.. Then I guess repeat all that water sloshing again to get it off?
The site mentioned water spots, but didn't mention tarnish or any way to protect your brass from oxidation with time. You know cartridge brass tarnishes right? Ever try to stop rust -once it starts? You can't, it's cancer that has to be cut away or converted.
The only reason to clean the inside of our brass is to relieve the volume of any carbon flakes that can build up, and potentially fall into a position that affects an ignition here or there. It's a very minor concern easily taken care of with traditional/dry cleaning. We apply a bit of polish to our dry media for a coating to prevent oxidation(from over-cleaning leaving surfaces exposed).
So unless trophies(and cash prizes) are being handed out for case internal shinyness, we should really keep our focus on function over form.
Anyway, after wetting your brass, you should dry it with a tumbler full of dry media, and then re-tumble to coat the brass with a wax based polish applied to dry media. And the sooner this is done, the less likely that oxidation will take hold and counter your chances for a trophy..
This well closes a circle of tail chasing you fadsters are falling into here.
It's a combination of every bad part of every method..
And now you have not only wet brass to worry about, but wet bench, wet counters, wet tumbler, a yucky dish sop bottle, lemon shine granules, measuring spoons, moldy sifters, moldy bucket, and moldy media. Haul it all outside to dry, and clean up the inside mess till tomorrow?
Then your brass is clean enough to check your lipstick and run it into your dies, except, you have to coat every one with sizing lube.. Then I guess repeat all that water sloshing again to get it off?
The site mentioned water spots, but didn't mention tarnish or any way to protect your brass from oxidation with time. You know cartridge brass tarnishes right? Ever try to stop rust -once it starts? You can't, it's cancer that has to be cut away or converted.
The only reason to clean the inside of our brass is to relieve the volume of any carbon flakes that can build up, and potentially fall into a position that affects an ignition here or there. It's a very minor concern easily taken care of with traditional/dry cleaning. We apply a bit of polish to our dry media for a coating to prevent oxidation(from over-cleaning leaving surfaces exposed).
So unless trophies(and cash prizes) are being handed out for case internal shinyness, we should really keep our focus on function over form.
Anyway, after wetting your brass, you should dry it with a tumbler full of dry media, and then re-tumble to coat the brass with a wax based polish applied to dry media. And the sooner this is done, the less likely that oxidation will take hold and counter your chances for a trophy..
This well closes a circle of tail chasing you fadsters are falling into here.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I have considered getting tumbler or some sort of cleaning device, but you guys have convinced me to stay with what I have always done.
I lightly lube my cases to re-size them, and when done resizing I use toilet paper to wipe each one individually. Seems to clean them, and leaves a little residue to keep them from corroding. Can't check my lipstick with them, but they stay consistent.
Periodically I brush out the primer pockets and case necks, but nothing very aggressive.
Steve
I lightly lube my cases to re-size them, and when done resizing I use toilet paper to wipe each one individually. Seems to clean them, and leaves a little residue to keep them from corroding. Can't check my lipstick with them, but they stay consistent.
Periodically I brush out the primer pockets and case necks, but nothing very aggressive.
Steve
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"Ultrasonic cleaners or shell case tumblers ??? Please give only your experiences and not hear say."
I have both. I only use the vib tumbler for cases. I only use the US for cleaning mechanical things like string trimmer carborators and small electric motors.
All rational priced bench top US cleaners are so low powered they won't clean more than 20-30 cases at once no matter the size of the tank. The guts will over heat if you run 'em more than 6-10 minutes without allowing 10 minutes of OFF so they can cool. It takes 4 to 8 cycles to get the kind of cleaning you see on the net. They are wet when you fininsh so they need several hours to dry internally before use. If you have 20 rounds it MIGHT be reasonable to use the US but not if you need to clean 100.
Vib. tumbling is good and quite effecent. Media type matters not, use cob or nut, both work fine. Dump your cases in by hundreds, walk off and come back in a few hours (or the next day) and they are ready to use. Vib tumblers are only noisy if you don't have the bowl tightened down enough.
Liquid bath rotary tumblers using (expensive) stainless or ceramic media is, IMHO, much more effective and efficent than an US cleaner but they are still slow and leave the cases wet. They are quite.
I have both. I only use the vib tumbler for cases. I only use the US for cleaning mechanical things like string trimmer carborators and small electric motors.
All rational priced bench top US cleaners are so low powered they won't clean more than 20-30 cases at once no matter the size of the tank. The guts will over heat if you run 'em more than 6-10 minutes without allowing 10 minutes of OFF so they can cool. It takes 4 to 8 cycles to get the kind of cleaning you see on the net. They are wet when you fininsh so they need several hours to dry internally before use. If you have 20 rounds it MIGHT be reasonable to use the US but not if you need to clean 100.
Vib. tumbling is good and quite effecent. Media type matters not, use cob or nut, both work fine. Dump your cases in by hundreds, walk off and come back in a few hours (or the next day) and they are ready to use. Vib tumblers are only noisy if you don't have the bowl tightened down enough.
Liquid bath rotary tumblers using (expensive) stainless or ceramic media is, IMHO, much more effective and efficent than an US cleaner but they are still slow and leave the cases wet. They are quite.
milanuk
Well-Known Member
My 'bulk' tumbling still gets done in a big Dillon CV-2001 tumbler with corn-cob media and Dillon Rapid Polish additive. For some of my 'match' brass though I don't like the fine dust and other associated crap (primer pocket residue, etc. that tends to find its way all over my presses and inside my dies.
I tried one of the small cheapie ultrasonic units with the 480 second (8 minute) timer, heater, and 1/2-3/4 gal (can't recall) tank. As mentioned above, it is pathetically under-powered, only has one transducer right in the middle of the tank, etc. 10-12 cases was the practical limit; more than that and whichever end of the case was 'up' didn't get very clean. Having to continually reset the timer on that unit was a serious annoyance - never noticed a problem with having to let it 'cool down' but then it wasn't putting out *that* much power to begin with.
I then tried wet-tumbling with ceramic media in a Thumler's Tumbler - first the 1/8" ovoid sticks with the angled cut on the end. They clean brass like nobodies business, but with bottlenecked rifle cases - forget it. They have a very bad tendency to pack in there and then get 'locked' until you pry out the 'key' piece that lets the rest of the pieces out. Major PITA factor! I tried some of the very small ceramic spheres (small enough to go through a regular flash hole) but they ended up being too 'clingy' (they'd stick to the case like when you pull something out of a box packed full of packing peanuts) and didn't clean as well. I over-tumbled some brass (>24hrs) in the ceramic media and ended up with some severely rounded over and burred case mouths - to the point I had to trim 5-10 thou off the case neck to get past the burrs. Not good.
I let myself get talked back into trying ultrasonic again - this time I stalked eBay until I found a quality brand-name unit (Branson) with considerably more grunt than the cheapie unit I bought originally. Two transducers (each bigger than the single one on the other unit), a mechanical timer that goes up to 60 minutes (or to continuous), and a pretty serious heater unit. I got the special lid to hold two 600ml beakers, got the thinnest glass lab beakers (so as to not attenuate as much of the us waves in the tank), had one filled with various cleaning acidic solutions (50/50 distilled water/vinegar, Citranox, etc.) and the other with a baking soda/ distilled water mix to neutralize the acid. Now I could do 20-30 cases at a time - yee-haw - and get them all the way clean. Still considerably PITA / fiddle factor involved.
When I read about the stainless steel media at another sight (Sniper's Hide) I was intrigued. I'd read about it other places; Mid Tompkins wrote part of the reloading chapter in Nancy Gallagher's book on Prone and Long Range shooting, and mentioned using steel media to wet tumble with - but what he used was a jeweler's mix that costs more for a pound than five of the wire pins does, so I'd passed. With the low cost of the pins now available, I finally tried the stainless steel media in my Thumler's Tumbler.
H-O-L-Y-C-O-W-!-!-!
Cleaner than US with way less fiddle-farting around with the solutions, rinsing, etc.
Less difficult to separate the media, and less abusive to the brass than ceramic media.
No dust or primer crud on my press or in my dies. (I do decap separately)
Drying isn't too big of a deal. Our oven has a setting for 'pure convection' and I put it in for an hour or two @ 140F. I swear its the most use our oven sees...
If you don't have an oven (or an understanding wife!) just leave the brass neck down in a case tray overnight with a fan blowing on it; should do the trick.
It's certainly not 'necessary' - I just like the cases being neat and clean when I go to load them. If I'm in a hurry though and don't have time to clean as described above, I have no issues with simply twisting the necks in some #0000 steel wool, brushing the insides of the necks and get down to business loading. That works too
I tried one of the small cheapie ultrasonic units with the 480 second (8 minute) timer, heater, and 1/2-3/4 gal (can't recall) tank. As mentioned above, it is pathetically under-powered, only has one transducer right in the middle of the tank, etc. 10-12 cases was the practical limit; more than that and whichever end of the case was 'up' didn't get very clean. Having to continually reset the timer on that unit was a serious annoyance - never noticed a problem with having to let it 'cool down' but then it wasn't putting out *that* much power to begin with.
I then tried wet-tumbling with ceramic media in a Thumler's Tumbler - first the 1/8" ovoid sticks with the angled cut on the end. They clean brass like nobodies business, but with bottlenecked rifle cases - forget it. They have a very bad tendency to pack in there and then get 'locked' until you pry out the 'key' piece that lets the rest of the pieces out. Major PITA factor! I tried some of the very small ceramic spheres (small enough to go through a regular flash hole) but they ended up being too 'clingy' (they'd stick to the case like when you pull something out of a box packed full of packing peanuts) and didn't clean as well. I over-tumbled some brass (>24hrs) in the ceramic media and ended up with some severely rounded over and burred case mouths - to the point I had to trim 5-10 thou off the case neck to get past the burrs. Not good.
I let myself get talked back into trying ultrasonic again - this time I stalked eBay until I found a quality brand-name unit (Branson) with considerably more grunt than the cheapie unit I bought originally. Two transducers (each bigger than the single one on the other unit), a mechanical timer that goes up to 60 minutes (or to continuous), and a pretty serious heater unit. I got the special lid to hold two 600ml beakers, got the thinnest glass lab beakers (so as to not attenuate as much of the us waves in the tank), had one filled with various cleaning acidic solutions (50/50 distilled water/vinegar, Citranox, etc.) and the other with a baking soda/ distilled water mix to neutralize the acid. Now I could do 20-30 cases at a time - yee-haw - and get them all the way clean. Still considerably PITA / fiddle factor involved.
When I read about the stainless steel media at another sight (Sniper's Hide) I was intrigued. I'd read about it other places; Mid Tompkins wrote part of the reloading chapter in Nancy Gallagher's book on Prone and Long Range shooting, and mentioned using steel media to wet tumble with - but what he used was a jeweler's mix that costs more for a pound than five of the wire pins does, so I'd passed. With the low cost of the pins now available, I finally tried the stainless steel media in my Thumler's Tumbler.
H-O-L-Y-C-O-W-!-!-!
Cleaner than US with way less fiddle-farting around with the solutions, rinsing, etc.
Less difficult to separate the media, and less abusive to the brass than ceramic media.
No dust or primer crud on my press or in my dies. (I do decap separately)
Drying isn't too big of a deal. Our oven has a setting for 'pure convection' and I put it in for an hour or two @ 140F. I swear its the most use our oven sees...
If you don't have an oven (or an understanding wife!) just leave the brass neck down in a case tray overnight with a fan blowing on it; should do the trick.
It's certainly not 'necessary' - I just like the cases being neat and clean when I go to load them. If I'm in a hurry though and don't have time to clean as described above, I have no issues with simply twisting the necks in some #0000 steel wool, brushing the insides of the necks and get down to business loading. That works too
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mo
Well-Known Member
Mikecr I couldn't agree with you more! All of what you said is why I don't clean very often.
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Thanks for the website for the stainless media Scott.
I do use the ceramic for my straight walled 45-90 black powder cases and it works very well. After I rinse them in a stainless screen type collandier preheat the oven to 200, put them on a cookie sheet that is just for this purpose, turn the oven off and put them in for about an hour or so. I can do 150 cases like this and have no problem with tarnish.
I do use the ceramic for my straight walled 45-90 black powder cases and it works very well. After I rinse them in a stainless screen type collandier preheat the oven to 200, put them on a cookie sheet that is just for this purpose, turn the oven off and put them in for about an hour or so. I can do 150 cases like this and have no problem with tarnish.
ScottB
Well-Known Member
No problem, just throwing out some options....which you choose has no effect on my wallet.
Have never used the ceramic stuff....
Do you have any issues with case hardening? I'm still concerned with the stainless stuff hardening case necks....which could lead to reduced life without annealing. (An annealing machine is still on my short list of stuff to purchase, and I've been doing the put the case in water, heat with torch, tip over method...but really dislike this)
When I do the ultrasonic method(recipe on 6mmBR-cheap-clean), I do so after just de-priming. After the cases have been run through the Hornady unit, I places cases in the toaster over to dry, then re-size and finally tumble in a Dillon to apply the protection. The problem with that corn cob is you have to pick it out of the primer pocket(and sometimes flash hole).
As far as doing excessive amounts of cases.... No the ultrasonic method isn't the answer(unless you have a gaint ultrasonic unit). But I generally don't go to the field(or even range...which is sometimes the same place) and fire hundreds of rounds.
Is the stainless steel tumbler, ultrasonic cleaners a 'fad'?
Maybe, but both methods work....as long as you take the time to dry the brass correctly and then add protection to the cartridge.
Scott
milanuk
Well-Known Member
I've been doing annealing every so many firings in conjunction with stainless tumbling so I can't say if it doses or doesn't make a difference, but honestly... I think the work hardening from sizing and forming the cases during loading and firing is going to be more of an issue than what you get from tumbling. How would one tell the effects apart, without specialized test equipment?
Remember the cases are suspended in water, so they aren't exactly in free-fall inside that tumbler. The stainless seems far less abusive than the ceramic - and that mainly because I don't over-tumble like I did with the ceramic media.
I too use the Stainless Tumbling Media. It is awesome and seriously hands down the way to go. It's fast and easy!! I am amazed that brass can actually get as clean as it does with this process. The pictures are not a lie and I love it! Stainless Tumbling Media, reloading supplies, reload brass
I imagine that stainless steel media behaves like regular media, in that after x-amount of uses it becomes dirty and needs to be cleaned. If that's the case could you please tell me how and what do you use to cleane the stainless steel media?. How many times can you tumble the brass before the media needs cleaning? Any info you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
rsm_38
milanuk
Well-Known Member
Just run the tumbler empty (media + liquid + detergent, no brass) once in a while for a couple hours. If you rinse the media out pretty good on a regular basis, I'm not sure you even need to do that.
It's stainless steel pins, not rocket science
It's stainless steel pins, not rocket science
I have the Hornady sonic cleaner and I use their liquid cleaner. Most bottle-neck cases come clean if it's the first firing. The unit also cleans straight-walled cases as the 45/70 fired with black-powder loads but it takes 2-3 cleanings to say "they're clean" !
All of my cases must then spend some time in a vibratory type cleaner to get that "new" look again.
All of my cases must then spend some time in a vibratory type cleaner to get that "new" look again.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I use a cheap Midway vibratory unit. Does the job very well (I use almost nothing but Lyman corncob media mixed with coarse ground corn meal). But If I ever buy another one, I'll buy the Lyman. It's a little easier to unload, and makes a smaller mess of things.
gary
