Clean bore vs dirty way off?!?

[Bigeclipse]

Ok so I know the title is confusing. What I mean by this is my muzzleloader is VERY consistent clean bore to clean bore shot (using 2 primers to foul the barrel first). I mean I get like .5inch groups at 100 yards. But that is where it ends. If I have to have a follow up shot...it is consistently 4inches to the right (this is using one spit patch cleaning in between the shots). So the good news is I know my first shot will be right on but the bad news is my second shot I need to remember to aim left a bit. Any ideas? This is with 240 xtps, CVA optima 2, and 3 pellets triple 7.

 

[slas]

Maybe with practice I could get fast enough at reloading to get a second shot off but the way it is now I can't see being able to get one off before my game would be gone. I've hunted several years now with a CVA wolf and have never, thankfully, required a second shot. Like yours, mine is extremely accurate the first clean bore. 2 Whitehots and a 200 grain shockwave gave me an 11 point buck and a coyote this year, both about 100 yards out.

 

[slas]

I was going to add that, on mine a quick pull through with a boresnake does a pretty good fast cleaning job.

 

[ENCORE]

Ok so I know the title is confusing. What I mean by this is my muzzleloader is VERY consistent clean bore to clean bore shot (using 2 primers to foul the barrel first). I mean I get like .5inch groups at 100 yards. But that is where it ends. If I have to have a follow up shot...it is consistently 4inches to the right (this is using one spit patch cleaning in between the shots). So the good news is I know my first shot will be right on but the bad news is my second shot I need to remember to aim left a bit. Any ideas? This is with 240 xtps, CVA optima 2, and 3 pellets triple 7.

Not unusual at all, however there are some rifles which will throw the second - fifth shot to the same POI. Lots of different claims and remedies that some have. Many are convinced its because of the type lubricant used and that it wasn't all removed from the barrel, so they use a combination of blue Windex and alcohol to clean and dry before firing/hunting. I've never had any luck with the home remedies, so I fouled my barrel with a squib charge. My last 209x50 Encore, would throw the first shot 4" high and 2" right. Second would change to 1/2 that overall distance. 3rd and every consecutive shot fired after, would hit the same POI.
Swabbing between shots at the range when zeroing, isn't cleaning. With BH209, I'd fire 2 rounds and load for the season.

 

[The Oregonian]

What I would do is to clean thoroughly and then shoot 8-10 shots, or however many 7ntil it becomes too fouled to shoot well.

Shoot each one and mark where it hits. If you get a one or more node of 3+ shots hitting same POI, i would note and then do again to confirm.

Once you know that, say, shots 3 through 6 are at same POI, shoot 2shots right before a hunting trip and know you have the n3xtnfournshotsnwhere you want them.

Do you have this data already?

 

[Bigeclipse]

What I would do is to clean thoroughly and then shoot 8-10 shots, or however many 7ntil it becomes too fouled to shoot well.

Shoot each one and mark where it hits. If you get a one or more node of 3+ shots hitting same POI, i would note and then do again to confirm.

Once you know that, say, shots 3 through 6 are at same POI, shoot 2shots right before a hunting trip and know you have the n3xtnfournshotsnwhere you want them.

Do you have this data already?

the problem I have with this is it can get humid, dry, rainy, snowy during hunting season and if "pre-foul" the bore I risk massive corrosion. I had this happen in the past with other muzzleloaders just sitting 2 days let alone an entire muzzleloading season.

 

[ENCORE]

the problem I have with this is it can get humid, dry, rainy, snowy during hunting season and if "pre-foul" the bore I risk massive corrosion. I had this happen in the past with other muzzleloaders just sitting 2 days let alone an entire muzzleloading season.

Change over to the BH209 compatible breech plug and shoot BH209, its a much better propellant and isn't as hydroscopic.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Change over to the BH209 compatible breech plug and shoot BH209, its a much better propellant and isn't as hydroscopic.

I own the bh209 plug already but have not tried it yet. As for your last statement, are you saying since it is not as hydroscopic, it will not corrode?

 

[J E Custom]

Just another idea that I tried and found that It worked very well for the normal BP fouling.

I have hunted with black powder and all the known substitutes with varying results with fouling. Having dealt with Moly coatings in high powered rifles I have found it very hard to remove with cleaning and if not cleaned often accuracy varied greatly.

Armed with this experience with molly, I decided to try it in my muzzle loaders to see if it reduced the fouling so mutable follow up shots were possible without a change in POA. And it worked for me in my rifles.

It made it possible to shoot 3 or 4 shots without losing accuracy or changing POA. It also made loading multiple shots easier. (A bonus In my mind).

So I molly coat the bore as per the directions and watch for accuracy digression, Then I thoroughly clean and re treat the bore, When done properly it appears to bring the POA and impact back to the original
Zero.

Works for me.

J E CUSTOM

 

[FrontierGander]

Dump that T7 trash and get some blackhorn209. Stop swabbing forever.

 

[ENCORE]

I own the bh209 plug already but have not tried it yet. As for your last statement, are you saying since it is not as hydroscopic, it will not corrode?

No. What I mean is you don't have to worry so much about corrosion as with any other propellant. My ritual for hunting is to clean the barrel of all the lubricants I can get out of it from storage. I then fire to primers only. I fire the rifle twice, either a day or two before the season opener, and after those two rounds, I load it immediately for hunting.
I use the muzz for all seasons in MI. The season opens on Nov. 15th and unless I harvest, the rifle remains loaded until the last day, Nov. 30th, then I fire it that evening and clean. I repeat the process identical for the dedicated muzzleloader season too and it remains loaded throughout.
MI, setting between two huge Great Lakes, has very unpredictable weather. The opener could be 10° with 8" of snow, or it could very well be in the 60's. Extreme temp changes from one day to another is easily possible. I do not bring my rifle into a warm house after a day of hunting. It goes into a case and then into an unheated garage, where the case prevents immediate exposure to any types of humidity or temp change. I've use this procedure since BH became available with ZERO corrosion problems. NOW....... If I end up hunting in the rain, I wipe the exterior of the rifle down then use a lubricated cloth. If I were to fall in a creek, then I'd probably either fire the rifle and load it immediately back up, or might even clean it, but complete the process.
Only you can determine what's correct for your specific needs. So although BH is the LEAST corrosive, you still need to keep track.

 

[william mul]

BH 209 Is Your Answer. I Can Go all Year Without A Clean, Pull Two Or Three Patches Through It and Bore and It Looks New..The T7 Left A Crude Ring after One Or Two Shots That Was Very Inconsistent. IMO BH 209 Is The Only Way To Go..

 

[Bigeclipse]

No. What I mean is you don't have to worry so much about corrosion as with any other propellant. My ritual for hunting is to clean the barrel of all the lubricants I can get out of it from storage. I then fire to primers only. I fire the rifle twice, either a day or two before the season opener, and after those two rounds, I load it immediately for hunting.
I use the muzz for all seasons in MI. The season opens on Nov. 15th and unless I harvest, the rifle remains loaded until the last day, Nov. 30th, then I fire it that evening and clean. I repeat the process identical for the dedicated muzzleloader season too and it remains loaded throughout.
MI, setting between two huge Great Lakes, has very unpredictable weather. The opener could be 10° with 8" of snow, or it could very well be in the 60's. Extreme temp changes from one day to another is easily possible. I do not bring my rifle into a warm house after a day of hunting. It goes into a case and then into an unheated garage, where the case prevents immediate exposure to any types of humidity or temp change. I've use this procedure since BH became available with ZERO corrosion problems. NOW....... If I end up hunting in the rain, I wipe the exterior of the rifle down then use a lubricated cloth. If I were to fall in a creek, then I'd probably either fire the rifle and load it immediately back up, or might even clean it, but complete the process.
Only you can determine what's correct for your specific needs. So although BH is the LEAST corrosive, you still need to keep track.

thank you! My last hunting day is this weekend so I will be using the triple 7 with the clean bore but after this weekend I will give the blackhorn and your method a try and see how the groups are. Thanks!

 

[Bigeclipse]

Just another idea that I tried and found that It worked very well for the normal BP fouling.

I have hunted with black powder and all the known substitutes with varying results with fouling. Having dealt with Moly coatings in high powered rifles I have found it very hard to remove with cleaning and if not cleaned often accuracy varied greatly.

Armed with this experience with molly, I decided to try it in my muzzle loaders to see if it reduced the fouling so mutable follow up shots were possible without a change in POA. And it worked for me in my rifles.

It made it possible to shoot 3 or 4 shots without losing accuracy or changing POA. It also made loading multiple shots easier. (A bonus In my mind).

So I molly coat the bore as per the directions and watch for accuracy digression, Then I thoroughly clean and re treat the bore, When done properly it appears to bring the POA and impact back to the original
Zero.

Works for me.

J E CUSTOM

thanks. I will have to look into this. I have zero idea what you are talking about so I will need to research. any links you can send me to?