Cast bullets in a 10mm auto

[Krumfola]

I have a stainless bisley in 45 colt. It's a fine piece but I don't shoot it very much because it's pretty heavy. I've been rolling around the idea of trading it toward a 10mm auto, most likely the Glock 20sf, but I wasn't sure about cast bullets in a 10mm.

I've read post after post about the stopping power of the 10mm with various jacketed bullets. I'd like to use hard cast bullets if for no other reason than cost and what I think would be superior penetration over jacketed bullets. (Opinions welcomed)

Has anyone loaded a 10mm with a good hard cast bullet? I've used Dry Creek bullets in my 45 and love them. I really like them because they're affordable and Lynn is an easy guy to get in touch with who also stands by his products.

I don't cast nor do I see myself starting in the foreseeable future so I'd be buying any cast bullets. Next to quality, available and price are pretty important to me.

Keith

 

[lamiglas]

Check out bear tooth bullets and double tap bullets. Bear tooth used to make the bullet for double taps 200 grain wide nose gas check load, but double tap now makes their own. You can buy either version from both companies respectively. Like you, we have loaded these based on what we expect for penetration, weight retention. Etc. They are more expensive than the other bullet we load (200 grain Montana gold cmj). But we believe it will be the best thing for a trail load. We are running lone wolf dist. Barrels and had lone wolf modify the chamber so we could use these. Just send them 5 dummy rounds and they will take care of it. Its been a really fun project. Good luck

 

[RT2506]

Glock says NOT TO USE CAST BULLETS IN THEIR PISTOLS. They have hexagonal rifling not standard land and groove. The hexagonal rifling is supposed to lead up quickly and will cause much higher presser and danger. I am not sure about the 10mm but you can get after market barrels for their other pistols with land and groove rifling and shoot cast bullets.

 

[lamiglas]

This is why we are using aftermarket lone wolf barrels as well. Some people shoot lead out of glock barrels but its not worth the chance to me. The lone wolf barrels are around $100 and are very accurate. Money well spent in my opinion. If your going to shoot lead you may want to check them out. We are running the long slide uppers on our 20sf's and absolutely love them.

 

[J E Custom]

I would not recommend shooting cast bullets in any high velocity pistol, (The 10 mm will reach velocities of 1400 ft/sec)

I have/do shoot hard cast bullets and found that velocities of 900+ ft/sec was problematic.

Policemen sometimes practice using cast bullets in there 40 S&Ws at reduced velocities but still
get some leading and have to keep an eye on the barrel condition.

IMO The 10mm auto is just about the most powerful semi auto available that can be carried, and good bullets are a must.

I understand the cost thing but you can buy bulk jacketed bullets fairly cheep and the difference is worth the extra cost.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I would not recommend shooting cast bullets in any high velocity pistol, (The 10 mm will reach velocities of 1400 ft/sec)

I have/do shoot hard cast bullets and found that velocities of 900+ ft/sec was problematic.

Policemen sometimes practice using cast bullets in there 40 S&Ws at reduced velocities but still
get some leading and have to keep an eye on the barrel condition.

IMO The 10mm auto is just about the most powerful semi auto available that can be carried, and good bullets are a must.

I understand the cost thing but you can buy bulk jacketed bullets fairly cheep and the difference is worth the extra cost.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

It all depends on the hardness of the lead. As far as swaged lead bullets JE hits the nail on the head squarely, but with hardcast and gas checked lead you have a totally different animal. I'm driving gas checked hardcast lead at over 1800 fps in my 375h@h with virtually zero leading. I'm also using plain base hardcast lead in my 44 and my 405 win with little to no leading. I get a bit of leading with recycled range lead in my 44 when I want cheap pills, but I throw about anything with lead in it in the pot for those bullets, so even with a cool water quench they are a bit soft. The trick with lead is to get your pressures to the point where the bullet obdurates without blowing the base of the bullet to heck; not too high, not too low. That alone may cause cycling issues in some auto's, but I've never seen it.

Hex rifling isn't a good choice with lead though, no mater the hardness. We had a baby eagle 45 for a spell that shot with lead, but it would lead up more than expected and pressures would rise. A better option for hex rifling is plated bullets.

 

[J E Custom]

It all depends on the hardness of the lead. As far as swaged lead bullets JE hits the nail on the head squarely, but with hardcast and gas checked lead you have a totally different animal. I'm driving gas checked hardcast lead at over 1800 fps in my 375h@h with virtually zero leading. I'm also using plain base hardcast lead in my 44 and my 405 win with little to no leading. I get a bit of leading with recycled range lead in my 44 when I want cheap pills, but I throw about anything with lead in it in the pot for those bullets, so even with a cool water quench they are a bit soft. The trick with lead is to get your pressures to the point where the bullet obdurates without blowing the base of the bullet to heck; not too high, not too low. That alone may cause cycling issues in some auto's, but I've never seen it.

Hex rifling isn't a good choice with lead though, no mater the hardness. We had a baby eagle 45 for a spell that shot with lead, but it would lead up more than expected and pressures would rise. A better option for hex rifling is plated bullets.

I absolutely agree with you that It can be done. My question is , Is it worth the trouble and the loss in velocity. Also I have had and seen problems with gas checks and will not use them at all, especially in a semi auto where failures can be catastrophic .

I admit that I am very carful about not taking short cuts or trying to save a little money but sometimes the savings are just not worth it IMO.

In this game, velocity and BCs are king so using hard cast bullets are just not worth it as long as we can still get good jacketed bullets.

I shoot hard cast bullets in my cartridge black powder rifles (Because no one makes 600+ grain bullets for them and load them to 1700 ft/sec+ but I do have to remove the lead fouling after accuracy starts dropping off.

To each his own, Not trying to start an argument, Just my opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I absolutely agree with you that It can be done. My question is , Is it worth the trouble and the loss in velocity. Also I have had and seen problems with gas checks and will not use them at all, especially in a semi auto where failures can be catastrophic .

I admit that I am very carful about not taking short cuts or trying to save a little money but sometimes the savings are just not worth it IMO.

In this game, velocity and BCs are king so using hard cast bullets are just not worth it as long as we can still get good jacketed bullets.

I shoot hard cast bullets in my cartridge black powder rifles (Because no one makes 600+ grain bullets for them and load them to 1700 ft/sec+ but I do have to remove the lead fouling after accuracy starts dropping off.

To each his own, Not trying to start an argument, Just my opinion.

J E CUSTOM

JE, the op needs opinions on what to do and these are simply our opinions. No argument at all and no worries.
At pistol ranges, bc's are less than important so I leave those off the table and look at what I need out of a bullet. If I'm tossing lead for practice I don't need high dollar but I do need accuracy, so a suitable lead or plated bullet ( depending on the firearm) will be my choice. Chasing game with a pistol dictates either a decent jacketed pill like the hdy xtp or a good hardcast pill with a wide metplat for good energy transfer and wound channel.

As to gas checks, yep, they can be an issue if not used correctly. You need to be aware that the check needs to be on very snug ( crimped on is best) and if you have a bottleneck cartridge you have to be very aware of your seating depth (as I do with my 375). They do not have to follow the bullet to the target, but need to be uniform in either dropping off or following for accuracy be be anywhere near peak.

 

[41mag]

So far my 10mm is the only handgun other than my Contenders that I do not cast for.

That said, it isn't because I feel it would be problematic it's just due to the fact I have a huge supply of jacketed for it and haven't purchased a mold as of yet.

My standard load uses the 180gr Gold Dot and it is very accurate out as far as you feel up to holding the sights still. Usually 2" or so groups at 50yds are pretty easily accomplished.

I never ran many of the 200's through it as the GD mentioned above never gave me cause to. Out to 50yds they hit plenty hard drive at 1350fps from the muzzle of my IAI Javelina. They put he smack down on quite few feral hogs with one shot stops being pretty regular when I was toting it around.

Personally if I were looking into picking one up for hunting, I would look into the 1911 type frames and something with a 6-7" barrel on it. This way you will be able to get better velocity from the heavier bullets using the slower powders like AA-9 without building up the top end pressures.

I mentioned above I don't load cast YET, I will and will probably jump on one of the nicely made MP molds if he builds one in the right weight range I am looking for. He has or had one going for a light weight but I felt I would rather save for the heavy version instead. If your not familiar with the MP molds give a look over on Castboolits, and you will find plenty of them pictured with just a simple search. They usually come with at least one or more set of hollow point pins and a set of blank ones for solids. Then again I might simply contact NOE molds and have one built by them in a weight and design that mimics the GD, but will alloy a heavier weight bullet.

As to hunting with cast HP's or carrying them for woods type protection, their performance is all in the alloy. I have been tweaking mine with other calibers ranging from 357, 41, 44, and 45 Colt, and have what I feel is about right for each velocity for retained weight and penetration. The only drawback is you give up some penetration with the rapid expansion, but with that expansion you get some pretty heavy shock value as well. Control the alloy, and you also control the expansion. That is just the way with cast, it is a give and take game all the way around. But even without using a HP I can still get adequate expansion from my solids if I am wanting too.

Those are loaded for my Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt over a health dose of HS-6 and are running just about 1200fps. I have only shot one big boar of around 250# with them, and to be honest the shots weren't really aimed. He came right up behind the grandson and I and was within 15ft when I drew and fired the first shot and less than 20 for the second. I hit him with both and spun him completely around with each before he got enough footing to get into the brush and away. He didn't go far, but fat plugged the exits and we lost him to the heat of the day.

 

[Randominator]

As far as the Glock 20SF you mentioned, you will not be sorry. I have been shooting mine for over three years and it is an outstanding weapon. I have shot Nosler 150 and 180 JHP's and cast bullets ranging in weight from 190 to 230 grains. I believe the 230's are a little heavy, but anything around 200 grains works great in the 10mm. I did change the barrel on my G20 to a 6" KKM, the main reason was to gain a little more velocity. I have shot cast bullets out of the factory barrel and saw no signs of leading. As cheap as aftermarket barrels are, I recommend one for lead bullets just to be on the safe side. If you handload, the aftermarket barrels give a lot better case support and will extend the life of your brass dramatically. Other than the KKM barrel, I have installed a 3.5 lb. Ghost connector, a JPoint reflex sight, and I use a 22 lb. recoil spring on a SS captured guide rod when shooting heavier loads.



The longer barrel poses no issues when carrying in the field for hunting.



The three loads I shoot in the 10mm are:

Nosler 150 grain JHP @ 1521 fps.
Nosler 180 grain JHP @ 1320 fps.
WFNGC 190 grain @ 1335 fps.

All three loads will group 2" @ 35 yards. The cast bullet is an excellent round in the 10mm. This bullet is cast from a custom mold from Accurate Molds. I have a friend who shoots the same bullet except in a 200 grain weight and he has harvested several large boar with one shot using this bullet. As far as using gas checks in semi-autos; I have never had any issues. I have run close to 1000 rounds of the 190 grain WFNGC through my Glock and over 800 rounds of 230 grain WFNGC bullets through my 460 Rowland and never had a misfeed or any other issue. I have never had any lead buildup in my barrels and they come clean with solvent and a brass brush.

 

[alaska]

Glock says NOT TO USE CAST BULLETS IN THEIR PISTOLS. They have hexagonal rifling not standard land and groove. The hexagonal rifling is supposed to lead up quickly and will cause much higher presser and danger. I am not sure about the 10mm but you can get after market barrels for their other pistols with land and groove rifling and shoot cast bullets.

Difference between Lead bullets and Hardcast !
Been shooting Hardcast with gas checks for years in Glocks.

 

[huntingskydiver]

Why using lead bullets nowadays? Risking fouling the barrel... Not worth it.

 

[Flintlock]

I have been buying 200 grn Cast loaded ammo this year from Lost River Ammo Co. on line. I have been shooting them from my Glock 20 since I purchased it. No fouling on my barrel. The maker of this ammo designed this load for Glocks and shoots it from his Glocks all of the time with no problems. I buy a lot of ammo from him for my .38 Spl pistols, 44 mag for hunting and playing. Never had a problem with any of it.
Lost River Ammo

 

[41mag]

Why using lead bullets nowadays? Risking fouling the barrel... Not worth it.

I shoot cast in more than my 10mm, in fact I started out pouring my own Lee 452-300RFGC for my 454 and have never had one issue with it. Now I cast for a dozen handguns and several rifles, all with no issues.

Have I had issues in the past, absolutely, and anyone who shoots cast will at some point have an issue. One or even several issues isn't an end all to doing so.

I cast my own so I can be self reliant, and not have to worry about a particular factory caliber bullet being available, or if it is, being priced to suit the manufacturer or dealer. I can make what ever type bullet I desire at home on demand. No factory excuses or middle man marks ups.

If you know what you are doing, cast will shoot and perform every bit as good as factory bullets do.