Case sorting???

[Topgun 30-06]

You just need to read what you have typed and see if you have used a little tact before you hit submit. It is obvious that you know reloading, but to put a sentence out like you did in response to a member like you started your post saying "You are wrong" turns people off whether you are correct or not. I appreciated reading your last psot because you had a lot of variables in there that many people, including myself, would probably not think about. Just be civil with others like you would like them to treat you and all is good! Thanks for all those things you mentioned that can have an effect when reloading!!!

 

[Mikecr]

K,, cyber-five

 

[davewilson]

X3MHunter;Differences in inside cavities give you different pressures, therefore different velocities, therefore vertical dispersion at long range. You say you don't "believe" the inside cavity has anything to do with accuracy... Well, I know it does, but only at long range.

when i say i believe, it's after i've tested this very thing. small variences in capacity make no difference in pressure. i also know of a HOF shooter that has tested this very extensively and came to the same conclusion i did.

 

[J E Custom]

You're wrong here. Capacity is ALL that matters, and it does not correlate well with brass weight(which does not matter at all). You also cannot do capacity checks on new brass or sized brass. It must be fully fireformed, and unsized(at consistent dimension).
If you had done capacity testing, you would certainly know this. It's the kind of understanding that get's real obvious, real quick..

Weighing brass is nothing but a shortcut without valid basis.
Then there are always the questions of when to weigh, given all the brass removed during preps. And some still believe that brass should be sized for dimensional consistency.
No,,No,, this all out of whack.

Sorry you feel that way. But you are entitled to your opinion just like I am .

Anyone that knows me knows that I am anal about everything that can/does improve accuracy
and if volume testing was better believe me I would do it regardless of use (target or hunting).

I have also full length sized,trimmed,turned, deburred and deburred and prepped the flash hole,
weight sorted to the same weight and then volume tested with the proper liquid and
found no difference in volume.

So this is what I have based my opinion on. It is not better just slower because of the extra steps
(pushing a spent primer in and then removing it).

The thing that I don't agree with is that weight sorting does not give you consistant volume,
Because if you check the volume of a fired case and weigh it then do a full case prep and weigh
it .The case will weigh close to the same but the volume will be less due to the sizing but they
will all have the same volume.

You can say that I am wrong if you want but there are many ways to do something and this is
just one of them and if it is just as accurate but easier, more people will do it .

I am not offended in any way, just sorry that you are not open minded and willing to except others
opinions or ways of doing things.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Firearrow]

Ok I am speaking for the new up in comers in this trade. It is amazing how this topic kind of got off track, but since I am the one that threw the first puch here we go. When someone asks a question, as do a lot of the beginers me included, we are not asking for short cuts, or the lazy way to becoming a good shot. There is a lot in info out there for the vary basic reloading (ie reloading manuals), but they just touch the surface of somethings like neck turning, case sorting, ect. The problem is they never go into detail on how to do it, or give a range on weights, dementions, ect. If there is some book out there, maybe we should post it. lightbulb So instead of just saying to hell with it, and trim the neck down to the tickness of a tissue paper, and blow our rigs up at the range, we turn to other resources for info/guidence so that one we do the process right, and two we can make an infromed decision as to weither we want to add this step to our reloading process. Then after we have tried it for our selves, and have seen if there is a difference for us, we make our decision if this is something we are going to keep doing. Once again, by no means is anyone looking for shortcuts, being lazy, or asking someone to reload our ammo for us. We just want to get better at reloading, shooting, and have a good time doing it.

O and by the way I see a lot good reloading practices that are for BR shooters apply to hunting rigs. It is up to the reloader/shooter as to how far we want to take it. Last I heard a lot of guys are putting in some serious load development/range time on there rigs so that they can take a good ethical (field practiced, and reproducable) shot. Once again thanks for the help everyone.


Shoot straight

 

[gcamp54]

Very interesting discussion. What is the method for measuring case volume? I assume you use a liquid but what are the details of the process? I'm sure I could come up with a process but I'm interested in what is already being done.

Gordon

 

[davewilson]

Quote J E Custom; The thing that I don't agree with is that weight sorting does not give you consistant volume - end quote.

i'm gonna agree with Mikecr on this one. i've measured the internal capacity of cases that weigh the same and they can have quite a bit of difference in volumn.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

davewilson---Those two statements you just made seem to contradict each other!

 

[davewilson]

Topgun, the first line is a quote from JE. does it make any better sense now?

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Yes Sir! Now that you have edited and put that as his statement and followed it with yours, it makes perfect sense. Thank you!!!

 

[Dammit]

What is the process of volume testing brass?

If I weigh my new brass into lots then volume test it after first fire wouldn't this give me the best of both methodslightbulb

 

[davewilson]

i volume test by filling the case with small ball powder and weighing the powder. plug the primer pocket, fill to the top tapping the sides several times and level it off at the case mouth. make sure you deburr the flashhole and the length is the same.

 

[Gene]

Gordon - I don't do it, but I believe some weigh an empty fired case, then fill it to the top with water or ball powder and weigh again. The difference should be consistent with all cases. Like others, I feel this is a waste of time.

 

[J E Custom]

Very interesting discussion. What is the method for measuring case volume? I assume you use a liquid but what are the details of the process? I'm sure I could come up with a process but I'm interested in what is already being done.

Gordon

There are several things that you have to buy to do volume testing properly.

First you need a laboratory Buret (A Glass measuring device).

Then you have to have a source for demineralized water.

Also you have to add a wetting agent to eliminate the surface tension. (To get an accurate
measurement).

The cases must be clean and free of any dust or oil before you start the volume testing.

Now you are ready to start;

Fill the Buret up with the treated water to a Zero mark and using the petcock fill the test case.
(Case must have a spent primer installed upside down).

When the case is level full stop filling and wright down the volume of that case on the case
it's self for later sorting.

If you mess up filling a case you must dump it out and set it aside for drying and testing
later because there will still be some test media in the case and render a false reading.

I have tried using a granular media (Like powder and found it inaccurate) because it is granular
and packs differently each time you place it in the case. (Sorry Dave). Ball powder was the best,
but it was still not precise enough due to the voids between each grain.I used the same powder
charge and dumped it from different heights and at different pour speeds and got varying results.
(It was not precise enough).

If you want to do a precise volume test the liquid method is the best way.

I am sure some will disagree with this process and I'm not trying to start another heated
debate because this thread has wandered off in a different direction that the original poster
probably wanted. But this is the proper way to test for volume and is used in laboratories.

I have all the nessary equipment and skills to do volume testing and have done so and it is
a painstaking and time consuming process and is the most precise of all methods. you will
have to decide if it is better or worth the effort.

I hope this helps.

J E CUSTOM