Cartridge over all length

milboltnut

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I was watching a You Tube video about camming over to keep it consistent.

only 7 minutes long

I got rid of a Lyman TMag that had over travel that caused major inconsistencies. I installed stops and it help it alot, but not quite. I up graded to a All American 8 station, NICE press. Still inconsistencies but according to the guy in this video he explains why.

Separate question sorry...

Considering the leade angle helps centers the bullet, wouldn't erosion distort the leade angle?
 
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When he mentions camming over, that was for the die that resized the body only.

If you're measuring from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet you will most likely see a difference in Cartridge Overall length. This is because most bullets, even the more expensive ones, vary in length.
 
When he mentions camming over, that was for the die that resized the body only.

If you're measuring from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet you will most likely see a difference in Cartridge Overall length. This is because most bullets, even the more expensive ones, vary in length.
I have the Hornady OAL comparators, and It seemed to get me going well but IDK if it's right. Erosion places bullet not the comparator. Ideas? Think a microseater would be the best thing?
 
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I have the Hornady OAL comparators, and It seemed to get me going well but IDK if it's right. Erosion places bullet not the comparator. Ideas? Think a microseater will suffice ?
I don't understand your statement "Erosion places bullet not the comparator". Would you please explain this?
 
As the throat erodes it changes the OAL. The contact point of gauges on the ogive of a bullet isn't the same of a continual eroding throat. I may be overthinking this, so set me straight if you think I am.
 
I'm not entirely sure what your asking either but I'll see if I can explain things a little.

The man in the video is Jeff Brozavich and he knows his stuff. What he is explaining in the video is how to setup your dies to make consistent ammo from round to round. You set your dies with cam over so they bottom out and square up. This helps to keep each round consistent in sizing and seating. Your neck is sized the same length down, the shoulder is bumped back the same amount and bullet seated to the same depth and all kept as straight as possible for each round. This is in relation to how you set your dies, so if the die is set to bump the shoulder .002, every round should come out to the same measurement or very close to. Same with seating the bullet, if you set the die to seat your bullet at an OAL measured to the ogive of 2.85 every round you make should come very close to 2.85 measured base to ogive. There is usually some variance and it's very hard to make every round dead nuts. My personal acceptable variance is +-.001 so I would be satisfied with rounds measuring from 2.84-2.86. Typically for me in my practices about 90% come out dead nuts and 10% have the +-.001. Now with this same ammo all measuring 2.85 from the base to the ogive you will most likely have a variance of a few thousandths from base to the tip of the bullet because the tips are inconsistent. In other words you can have 10 rounds that all measure exactly 2.85 base to ogive but there may be +-.003 or even more variance when measuring these same 10 rounds from base to tip.

The relation this bullet has to the lands or lead of your rifle is up to you to measure and determine. So staying with my example of 2.85 let's say that is .020 off the lands in your rifle. So that means if you seated the bullet at 2.870 (again measured base to ogive) that bullet would be touching the lands of your rifle at the bullet ogive. Though it may not be touching the bullet ogive at exactly the same spot as your bullet comparator due to differences in diameter between the tool and your lead.

This is why you go through the process of load development and seating depth test. You measure to find the round is touching lands at that 2.87 measurement then test different seating depths to find which shoots best. Typically you test from 0 off (touching lands) to -.100 (2.77 base to ogive) or more. Once you find the sweet spot that is what you load all your ammo to, in my example I determined the sweet spot was .020 off so all my ammo will be loaded to 2.85.

Now as far as throat erosion, it does happen and it does change the relation of the bullet ogive to the lands of your rifle. Typically it takes a few hundred rounds to measure any difference but there is a ton of variables to that and it's just something to keep in mind. Sometimes the seating depth sweet spot remains the same regardless of how much erosion has happened. Other times you need to chase the lands (seat bullets out further) to keep accuracy. All of it is for you to keep an eye on and determine, so if after say 400 rounds you see accuracy degrade and you know it's not an issue with barrel cleaning or equipment measuring the throat erosion and re testing seating depth based off your new measurement is one variable to check.

Sorry for such a long post but hopefully it helps to clear some things up for you.
 
post not too long, no. You were to the point without getting too long winded.. I get it.

First time I ever saw a neck die with a mic on it, that got my attention. Just wondering why he wants to body size and then neck size, instead of just have FL bush die.

prevents Donuts ?
 
A standard fl sizer crushes the neck .010-.015 before it pulls the expander ball back thru. The comp neck bushing allows him to set the amount of crush to a minimum before he pushes a mandrel thru it, pulls a ball thru, or he can use a bushing to set neck tension and not come back and expand at all if that's what he chooses to do.
Setting the body die with cam over pressure you'll want to use comp shell holders to set your shoulder bump because the die itself is locked down in position.
 
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A standard fl sizer crushes the neck .010-.015 before it pulls the expander ball back thru. The comp neck bushing allows him to set the amount of crush to a minimum before he pushes a mandrel thru it, pulls a ball thru, or he can use a bushing to set neck tension and not come back and expand at all if that's what he chooses to do.
Setting the body die with cam over pressure you'll want to use comp shell holders to set your shoulder bump because the die itself is locked down in position.

Got it. I like the idea of the different shell holders
 
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First time I ever saw a neck die with a mic on it, that got my attention. Just wondering why he wants to body size and then neck size, instead of just
Better control over the length of neck sizing with the mic on top of the bushing. All bushing dies are notionally adjustable for length of sizing, but the mic makes it easier. Same way a seating die works.

I guess you could have a mic on a FL bushing die, but historically neck sizing was a separate operation after each firing and body sizing was more rarely done. Times have changed and FL sizing is more common now.

I think Redding sells an add-on mic top that could be made to work on the FL bushing die, but I've never looked into it specifically.
 

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