Can't get my Tac 15 i to paper tune
- Thread starter giannid
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Witch one is it an up tear or a down tear? At what distance are you tuning it at? There are some threads posted on tuning. Still another question...vanes or no vanes?See what you can find,LRH is a wealth of info. Ill see what i can do to help or let me know how you make out.Yout post states an up tear then a down tear.Cant help till we know what direction for sure.
To clarify, I'm getting a down tear which the manual says to move the biscuit all the way up and still getting it. Left to right seems good. The manual doesn't tell me what range to do it at so I'm at 5 yards and using a bare shaft. Same way I've done it on the compounds I've shot.
kill N grill
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i would start all over..something doesn't sound right. Try this, on a table, level the bow front to back, side to side with a torpedo level... do it with an arrow knocked, and at full draw (safety on!! lol). once you know the bow is level, place the level on the arrow shaft and adjust the WB until the arrow is perfectly level. shoot through paper and see how it looks then. One other thing i found, is when you are drawing it back with the crank.. slow down right before the sled catches... go one click at a time and the second that sled pin catches in the frame slot stop! ..these Tac's are so temperamental that over drawing it, just the slightest, will mess with the paper tune.
jon.henry755
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Hi kill-N-grill,
Your problem is due to Cam Lean. I posted an article about it in Crossbow Nation, so please read and follow the instructions.
It's only one end of the cable that gets twisted as opposed to the string.
Direction of twist is unknown, so the instructions will tell you to add one or twists then retest. If the problem (the tear) increases it means you are twisting in the wrong direction. If the tear gets better, then continue adding more twists until you get the perfect bullet hole you're seeking.
Regards,
Jon Henry
Your problem is due to Cam Lean. I posted an article about it in Crossbow Nation, so please read and follow the instructions.
It's only one end of the cable that gets twisted as opposed to the string.
Direction of twist is unknown, so the instructions will tell you to add one or twists then retest. If the problem (the tear) increases it means you are twisting in the wrong direction. If the tear gets better, then continue adding more twists until you get the perfect bullet hole you're seeking.
Regards,
Jon Henry
Jon -- You should write a comprehensive description complete with pictures on how to set up and tune the Tac 15i. I myself have done the the paper tuning preceedure only to find my Tac was shooting over a foot high at 20 yards. Therefore I shimmed the front of my scope and adjusted my arrow rest to get it shooting on target. Obviously the paper tuning was of no use. I am compensating for something else that is wrong. For me the bow shoots fine. At 100 yards I can put a choosen arrow in a 3 inch circle consistantly. I would pay good money for a good explaination on how to properly set up the bow starting with taking it out of the box. You could even include tuning the bow for shooting broadheads. Such a write up is easilly worth 20 to 30 dollars. --- Food for thought --- Paul
jon.henry755
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- 391
Hi Paul,
Wouldn't you think that the manufacturer of any given crossbow or weapon should be obligated to provide basic set-up and tuning documentation?
I hate to complain, but considering the cost of these xbows, they really should have included a lot more documentation to help their customers.
I'm not in the business of trying to make money. A few years ago when my writing and documentation on the TAC's began it was for the sole purpose of trying to help others who didn't have the level of knowledge or experience as do I. I tried to do this without costing anybody any extra money and at the same time to work within my allowable spare time. I'll be the first to admit the time invested got out of hand as more and more people began e-mailing me for help and the calls were becoming a nightly event. This falls under the category of "No Good Deed Ever Goes Unpunished"!
This has been somewhat a labor of love and doesn't apply to just me by a long shot. I had some very good company along the way in other members both past and present. To produce a manual would probably have been a sizable task and considering these crossbows have a limited life span before they are either replaced or modified which would likely change the quality of the information I've tried to keep up with them in the form of these forums.
Let's get to your current question / problem. The only major mistake you've made is that you made adjustments on your arrow rest and scope to compensate for shooting high at 20 yards.
This is a major No, No. Go back and set your scopes elevation adjustments to the mid point of the elevation adjustment in clicks. Also get a paper tuner and re-adjust your arrow rest bracket until you have a perfect bullet hole pattern at 15 yards. Once you have a perfect hole, lock off the arrow rest and forget about it. Never touch it again unless replacing the rest.
Next, get the adjustable scope rings made by Burris (Zee Rings) and follow the instructions that have been outlined by Buzzard Bait and others for proper shimming of your scope. The concept is this: Once your crossbow is shooting a perfect hole when paper tuning at 15 yards, this confirms the alignment between your arrow rest and nocking point is good-to-go. Next you now need to insure your scope is pointing to the exact same spot your crossbow is shooting. This is done strictly through the scope alignment process and the Zee Rings are the best possible solution to make adjusting this alignment easy and permanent.
Once the Zee Rings get you extremely close to being on the bullseye of your target at 20 yards you can then make any tiny tweaks using the the scopes windage or elevation adjustments, but these should be only a last resort.
Last, Now move out to 50 or 60 yards, make your elevation adjustment on your Optimizer Speed Dial for the distance and shoot at your targets center. If the windage is off at all, adjust the windage on the scope until centered, then move back into 20 yards to insure your shots are still in the bullseye. If so, move your distance to 80 yards and repeat the process. Final windage adjustments are always set at the longest distance you shoot, not the shortest.
If for any reason you are not in the bullseye at the shortest distance after adjusting at a longer distance it typically indicates either your crossbow is not level when shooting (Canted) or something is not properly squared on your crossbow. This implies that wind is not the cause.
After performing these tuning adjustments on my own crossbow I can consistently stay within a 1" florescent dot at 20 yards and I chase the same dot when shooting at 100 yards. I can't always hit the dot at 100 yards, but I'm never more than an inch or two away.
I recently had to change my string and cables on my TAC for the first time since purchase. That was after 3,500 shots on the originals. In order to put new cables and string on, I also had to reserve the timing cord from my QAD HDX Drop Away Rest onto the new Down Cable. This basically meant re-tuning and alignment from scratch. The end results were exactly as they had been and shooting performance did not suffer at all.
If necessary, please send Buzzard Bait a message and ask him for the details on the Zee Rings.
Regards,
Jon
Wouldn't you think that the manufacturer of any given crossbow or weapon should be obligated to provide basic set-up and tuning documentation?
I hate to complain, but considering the cost of these xbows, they really should have included a lot more documentation to help their customers.
I'm not in the business of trying to make money. A few years ago when my writing and documentation on the TAC's began it was for the sole purpose of trying to help others who didn't have the level of knowledge or experience as do I. I tried to do this without costing anybody any extra money and at the same time to work within my allowable spare time. I'll be the first to admit the time invested got out of hand as more and more people began e-mailing me for help and the calls were becoming a nightly event. This falls under the category of "No Good Deed Ever Goes Unpunished"!
This has been somewhat a labor of love and doesn't apply to just me by a long shot. I had some very good company along the way in other members both past and present. To produce a manual would probably have been a sizable task and considering these crossbows have a limited life span before they are either replaced or modified which would likely change the quality of the information I've tried to keep up with them in the form of these forums.
Let's get to your current question / problem. The only major mistake you've made is that you made adjustments on your arrow rest and scope to compensate for shooting high at 20 yards.
This is a major No, No. Go back and set your scopes elevation adjustments to the mid point of the elevation adjustment in clicks. Also get a paper tuner and re-adjust your arrow rest bracket until you have a perfect bullet hole pattern at 15 yards. Once you have a perfect hole, lock off the arrow rest and forget about it. Never touch it again unless replacing the rest.
Next, get the adjustable scope rings made by Burris (Zee Rings) and follow the instructions that have been outlined by Buzzard Bait and others for proper shimming of your scope. The concept is this: Once your crossbow is shooting a perfect hole when paper tuning at 15 yards, this confirms the alignment between your arrow rest and nocking point is good-to-go. Next you now need to insure your scope is pointing to the exact same spot your crossbow is shooting. This is done strictly through the scope alignment process and the Zee Rings are the best possible solution to make adjusting this alignment easy and permanent.
Once the Zee Rings get you extremely close to being on the bullseye of your target at 20 yards you can then make any tiny tweaks using the the scopes windage or elevation adjustments, but these should be only a last resort.
Last, Now move out to 50 or 60 yards, make your elevation adjustment on your Optimizer Speed Dial for the distance and shoot at your targets center. If the windage is off at all, adjust the windage on the scope until centered, then move back into 20 yards to insure your shots are still in the bullseye. If so, move your distance to 80 yards and repeat the process. Final windage adjustments are always set at the longest distance you shoot, not the shortest.
If for any reason you are not in the bullseye at the shortest distance after adjusting at a longer distance it typically indicates either your crossbow is not level when shooting (Canted) or something is not properly squared on your crossbow. This implies that wind is not the cause.
After performing these tuning adjustments on my own crossbow I can consistently stay within a 1" florescent dot at 20 yards and I chase the same dot when shooting at 100 yards. I can't always hit the dot at 100 yards, but I'm never more than an inch or two away.
I recently had to change my string and cables on my TAC for the first time since purchase. That was after 3,500 shots on the originals. In order to put new cables and string on, I also had to reserve the timing cord from my QAD HDX Drop Away Rest onto the new Down Cable. This basically meant re-tuning and alignment from scratch. The end results were exactly as they had been and shooting performance did not suffer at all.
If necessary, please send Buzzard Bait a message and ask him for the details on the Zee Rings.
Regards,
Jon
Jon -- I got my Tac shooting bullets with a bare arrow shaft at 10 feet. However the bow was shooting way too high even for the largest Burris Signature rings to correct at 20 yards. Therefore I was forced to shim the front of the scope with two strips of duct tape and extra long screws thru the collers that hold the burris rings. I was still shooting too high so I was forced to adjust the arrow rest so I could get it hitting on target at 20 yards ?? I left the scope windage and elevation adjusters at mid range.
Paul
Paul
jon.henry755
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 391
Hi Paul,
Are you aware that Burris makes their Zee Rigs with different amount of adjustment for situations where more shimming is needed. Also, those guys who've used them often talk about reversing the front and and rear rings to get more height on the fronts while lowering the rear of the scope.
I can't offer much advice it this area, since I've never had to shim my scope, but I'm sure some of the other guys know more about this.
Adjusting the arrow rest is actually a mis alignment between the rest and knocking point. You were shooting bullet holes before you made the adjustment on your arrow rest, but not any longer.
It's not the end of the world, but for optimal performance, I'd recommend additional scope shimming.
Regards,
Xbow755
Are you aware that Burris makes their Zee Rigs with different amount of adjustment for situations where more shimming is needed. Also, those guys who've used them often talk about reversing the front and and rear rings to get more height on the fronts while lowering the rear of the scope.
I can't offer much advice it this area, since I've never had to shim my scope, but I'm sure some of the other guys know more about this.
Adjusting the arrow rest is actually a mis alignment between the rest and knocking point. You were shooting bullet holes before you made the adjustment on your arrow rest, but not any longer.
It's not the end of the world, but for optimal performance, I'd recommend additional scope shimming.
Regards,
Xbow755
Buzzard Bait
Well-Known Member
Hi Paul,
I had the same problem when I first got my TAC 15.
jon.henry755's advise is right on! You will need two sets of the Signature Zee Ring ***-Align Offset Insert Kits to get the proper adjustment. Each kit contains three (3) offset inserts, one .005" offset insert marked -5 and +5, one .010" marked -10 and +10, and one insert .020" marked -20 and +20. You will need to use the .020" inserts, (one .020" from each kit).
Rotate the front insert so that the +20 or fat portion of the insert is down and install in the front ring. Rotate the rear insert so that the -20 or skinny portion is down and install in the rear ring. This combination will give you the max tilt of your scope.
If this isn't enough, you can move the rings as close as possible to the adjustment turrets for some additional scope tilt and movement for eye relief. This is what I did to solve the problem....see photo below.
You should have leveled/squared your crossbow before mounting the scope.
You should also move your scope windage and elevation adjustments back to center before mounting the scope.
You should also move your rest back to where you weree shooting bullet holes.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Buzzard Bait
I had the same problem when I first got my TAC 15.
jon.henry755's advise is right on! You will need two sets of the Signature Zee Ring ***-Align Offset Insert Kits to get the proper adjustment. Each kit contains three (3) offset inserts, one .005" offset insert marked -5 and +5, one .010" marked -10 and +10, and one insert .020" marked -20 and +20. You will need to use the .020" inserts, (one .020" from each kit).
Rotate the front insert so that the +20 or fat portion of the insert is down and install in the front ring. Rotate the rear insert so that the -20 or skinny portion is down and install in the rear ring. This combination will give you the max tilt of your scope.
If this isn't enough, you can move the rings as close as possible to the adjustment turrets for some additional scope tilt and movement for eye relief. This is what I did to solve the problem....see photo below.
You should have leveled/squared your crossbow before mounting the scope.
You should also move your scope windage and elevation adjustments back to center before mounting the scope.
You should also move your rest back to where you weree shooting bullet holes.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Buzzard Bait
Thanks for all the advice Guys. ---When the weather warms up here in Northern Ontario I will try moving the scope rings as close as possible. Hopefully this will be enough for 20 yard shooting. Even if I need to use a higher mill dot on the scope for 20 yards I can live with that. Paul
