wideopenyamaha
Member
I had the same issue with my 300 wm. Had to cooper clean the barrel i used to shoot 168 smks in and then the 168 ttsx and 150s ttsx worked awesome
California - Copper
- Thread starter C-Crist276
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Blacktailer
Well-Known Member
Been using Barnes from mid 90's. X, TSX, TTSX, X coated, you name it. One thing you need to be aware of is that monos typically expand to less frontal area than cup and core bullets. For that reason they will typically out-penetrate a C&C but impart less energy to the game (I can't recall ever recovering a Barnes from an animal). For that reason, it is typically better to shoot for CNS or bone to minimize tracking animals. Your typical behind the shoulder lung shot while fatal can sometimes lead to extended tracking sessions.
You download and use calculators that use Miller's Stability formula, such as this one:
JBM - Calculations - Stability
Ronald W Schaefer
Well-Known Member
Try Barnes TTSX and LRX series bullets...along with the hammers.
WYO300RUM
Well-Known Member
I was going to say on Sun. That I had a load for my Rem. 700 300 RUM I used for years with first a 180 TSX and then a TTSX with 98.0 grs. Retumbo at 3300 fps..it shot 5 shot 1/2 in. groups for years. It was a deer and elk thumper. Maybe work with Retumbo in you 300 Weatherby and some 168 TTSX, 175 LRX or 180 TTSX. I haven't even got to Retumbo yet with my new barrel or 6.5's yet. Been working with Hammers lately with good results. 181 Hammers and H1000 with great results . 124 Hammers in 6.5 PRC , 6.5X284 and Creedmoor
LiveToHunt7
Well-Known Member
Use this Berger app to figure out if the bullet will stabilize. I just found it yesterday. They also may be conservative on the necessary twist but just input your bullet and ballistic data and see what it says.
Twist Rate Stability Calculator
Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.
bergerbullets.com
Also take a look at Badlands Precision bullets. I'll be trying those out for my 7.
Stan Malinky
Well-Known Member
I have been shooting Barnes out of multi Calibers and no problem with the correct reload combination. I have not tried Factory Copper.
Tidus56
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2018
- Messages
- 2,050
This is interesting, I changed to Hammers in one of my rifles without scrubbing it out as well as I should have. Long story short they shot very well. I must have got lucky and I'll keep it in mind for next time I shoot a copper.
I did the same thing in my 6.5x47. Probably not as clean as it should if been. Switched from 130 Accubond to 124 HH. Shoots excellent.
Eagel Builder
Well-Known Member
Barnes are the best. Tried the early E-Tip Nosler ….crap ! Barnes recommends lighter bullets then what you would use with lead. TSX are better than TTSX for penetration. My opinion and sticking with it!
WYO300RUM
Well-Known Member
When E Tips first came out I tried using load data from Barnes . Even lower end loads had major pressure. Never used again stuck with Barnes TSX and TTSX and GMX a little. Now with Hammers .Barnes are the best. Tried the early E-Tip Nosler ….crap ! Barnes recommends lighter bullets then what you would use with lead. TSX are better than TTSX for penetration. My opinion and sticking with it!
I have experimented with copper bullets for over 6 years. There are five of us that hunt in NorCal and have found that for deer the best overall performance has come from The Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos and the Cutting Edge Raptors. But they cost a bunch. We will use them for Elk and other class 3 game but for deer size and below we shoot the Chaos. The principal is to have a lead free bullet that performs like the old lead standby Nosler Partition. Take a look at their gel shot videos on YouTube to see examples of the design in work. The thing with lead free bullets is they are long for weight so you may find that by stepping down a weight will increase accuracy and performance on game. They need a bit more speed to perform. They also prefer a fairly large jump to the lands when seating them.
What we all found with the more traditional lead free designs they tend to go through so fast that even though they mushroom well they expend most of their energy outside the animal which means that many of our well placed heart or lung shots required more tracking. The guides that I work with all tell their customers to shoot for the front shoulder instead so that you can release more of the energy within an animal and pieces of the bone will cause more tissue damage. There is a good write up and video on copper bullets on the ballistic studies website here: Be aware that he shows some graphic images of wound channels etc.
Hope this helps. I have worked with them in .243, .257 Wby, 25 WSSM, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5-284 Norma, 6.8SPC, 270 Win, 300 B/O, 308, 300 Win Mag., 300WSM, 338 Federal, 35 Whelen, 450 Bushmaster as well as several handgun calibers. Load workups are basically the same as with lead only you need to step down in weight to maintain the speed needed for the lead free to perform as designed. And they will need to have a good jump to the lands. The elk in my avatar was taken with the 300 WSM at 182 yards with a Cutting Edge 150Gr. Long Range Raptor bullet. The core of the bullet made full penetration and the 6 petals were in a circle around the exit hole about 4 inches wide. Some actually exited but we found some embedded in the exit side rib cage and hide. The animal never took a step. The heart and both ribs had extensive damage from both the core and the pedals.
What we all found with the more traditional lead free designs they tend to go through so fast that even though they mushroom well they expend most of their energy outside the animal which means that many of our well placed heart or lung shots required more tracking. The guides that I work with all tell their customers to shoot for the front shoulder instead so that you can release more of the energy within an animal and pieces of the bone will cause more tissue damage. There is a good write up and video on copper bullets on the ballistic studies website here: Be aware that he shows some graphic images of wound channels etc.
Copper bullets can be inhumane
The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs
www.ballisticstudies.com
Hope this helps. I have worked with them in .243, .257 Wby, 25 WSSM, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5-284 Norma, 6.8SPC, 270 Win, 300 B/O, 308, 300 Win Mag., 300WSM, 338 Federal, 35 Whelen, 450 Bushmaster as well as several handgun calibers. Load workups are basically the same as with lead only you need to step down in weight to maintain the speed needed for the lead free to perform as designed. And they will need to have a good jump to the lands. The elk in my avatar was taken with the 300 WSM at 182 yards with a Cutting Edge 150Gr. Long Range Raptor bullet. The core of the bullet made full penetration and the 6 petals were in a circle around the exit hole about 4 inches wide. Some actually exited but we found some embedded in the exit side rib cage and hide. The animal never took a step. The heart and both ribs had extensive damage from both the core and the pedals.
Last edited:
MS660Magnum
Active Member
Everyone seems to be right on with my experience also. I've has great luck with Barnes (TSX, TTSX, and LRX), so-so with Hornady GMX, and busted with Nosler E-Tips. As others have noted, I learned early on that copper bullets are longer than lead, meaning that you may have to get a lighter (ie shorter) bullet to match your twist rate.
One thing I haven't seen stated here yet is that copper/guilding metal bullets are also typically HARDER than c&c bullets. That's why they need the relief cuts in order to smash into the rifling properly. One effect of that hardness, coupled with the longer bearing surface in n the barrel, is that you can build excessive pressures very easily, especially with a fast-burn powder. Therefore, it's very important to use load data specific to that bullet, or at least for monolithic bullets. You can't take your old recipe for c&c bullets and just stick a copper in there of the same weight. You'll probably have to change your charge. That pressure difference may also be why so many have noticed that monos like that free bore jump.
One more plus for Barnes is that their load data is typically freely available on their website. I'd start there.
One thing I haven't seen stated here yet is that copper/guilding metal bullets are also typically HARDER than c&c bullets. That's why they need the relief cuts in order to smash into the rifling properly. One effect of that hardness, coupled with the longer bearing surface in n the barrel, is that you can build excessive pressures very easily, especially with a fast-burn powder. Therefore, it's very important to use load data specific to that bullet, or at least for monolithic bullets. You can't take your old recipe for c&c bullets and just stick a copper in there of the same weight. You'll probably have to change your charge. That pressure difference may also be why so many have noticed that monos like that free bore jump.
One more plus for Barnes is that their load data is typically freely available on their website. I'd start there.
