Building a rifle specifically for copper bullets

[Tinbender]

This has also been my experience, especially with the Barnes. While I've only worked with the .30cal 150, 168 & 180's & the 7mm 140MRX; we've shot several hundred of them... if not more.


OP- what ranges are you intending to shoot? I can personally recommend the Cutting Edge as a bullet less finicky than Barnes (at least in my experience). They also seem to offer a better BC across the board.


t

I would think that 500-600 yards would realistically be as far as I'm looking to go with the caveat that a few years ago I thought 350-400 was going to be my max and anymore that doesn't really seem that far, so I wouldn't want to limit myself if everything was working I may want to stretch it out a bit more.

I would like to try the cutting edge and I've also looked at the gs custom bullets but just haven't tried them yet. Overall I'm starting to confirm what I have learned that a pretty good jump as fast as I care to push them seems to be the formula. I don't mind paying for a better bullet as the Barnes aren't exactly cheap to begin with, but my main focus at this point is to get the clambering and free bore correct to allow the bullets to perform the best.

 

[Tinbender]

Consider to try some GS Custom HV bullets instead of the Barnes. The construction is enough different that the behavior might be completely different.

I also have a .270 win and am looking at those next, but more like 100 grain to get the stability.

From what I can tell, if you want to shoot 150 - 250 grain bullets, it now takes a 375, like an H&H, ruger, or similar. It takes a BIG jump in caliber to make a significant move from .270 results with copper bullets.

Since you hand load, a 375 Taylor might be interesting.

Personally, I think that Barnes is a little bit optimistic with the bullet length (weight) vs. twist stability numbers, and certainly is far more aggressive compared to Cutting Edge and GS custom recommendations.

Thanks for the advice, and I like the suggestion of the 375 Taylor as I actually have a 416 Taylor that I bought on a whim because it was a good deal but haven't really played with it much, plus it's not as pleasant to shoot as some of the smaller guns.

I have noticed when booking at the gs bullets that they are significantly lighter for caliber than most, but I have learned that once I step down a weight with the Barnes I tend to get better results, which contradicts most long range shooting where the heaviest bullet for the caliber seems to work best. Do the gs bullets still want the jump that other coppers do or do they want something different?

 

[HarryN]

I am not really long range qualified to give advice, really more in the reading / learning stage. The longer / heavier bullets typically have better ballistic coefficients and of course sectional density, which are all good for long range. It takes a faster twist to make up for the longer bullets.

With the lower density of copper, the bullet gets long at lower mass, so the twist requirement just rises faster.

Probably given the choice, people would use high density tungsten bullets for long range, but that is not legal in the US. Interestingly, in some Africa counties, it appears to be ok. Those same countries ban semi-autos.

The switch to copper bullets takes you to a different mind set than lead core bullets to accomplish the same goals, at least from what I can tell. The GS Custom site has a lot of useful information about load development. They use COAL to adjust for group size, just like other bullets.

Since you already have the .416 Taylor, maybe try loading up for it using the lighter GS Custom bullets, up to the rated twist. Maybe the 416330HV120 ?

That is the same bullet I am planning to build a .416 Weatherby around. What area are you in ? Maybe I can buy some bullets and powder for you and test your Taylor ?

I am near Livermore, CA - not too far from San Jose.

I am thinking about buying a copy of Quickload software to play with. It looks like it is possible to soften the kick a little by playing with the pressure curves, powder selection, and load.

In case it is interesting, GS Custom will make a custom bullet for you as well. I don't know the minimum, but they promote the concept.

 

[mountainman56]

I have been having incredible luck with Barnes bullets lately. I recently finished a Savage in 280 AI and to date the 168 lrx is showing great promise along with the 168 Berger. I have also worked up loads for several 300 Win mags with the 200 lrx and another 280 Rem with a 1/10 twist that shoots the 140 ttsx extremely well. My 300 RUM also likes the 200 lrx although I prefer the 230 Berger.

My 280 so far is showing promise jumping them .060 however I have very few rounds downrange.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

I would think that 500-600 yards would realistically be as far as I'm looking to go with the caveat that a few years ago I thought 350-400 was going to be my max and anymore that doesn't really seem that far, so I wouldn't want to limit myself if everything was working I may want to stretch it out a bit more.

I would like to try the cutting edge and I've also looked at the gs custom bullets but just haven't tried them yet. Overall I'm starting to confirm what I have learned that a pretty good jump as fast as I care to push them seems to be the formula. I don't mind paying for a better bullet as the Barnes aren't exactly cheap to begin with, but my main focus at this point is to get the clambering and free bore correct to allow the bullets to perform the best.

500-600 with a 280AI is very doable, as well as farther when you decide to. The caveat being, when you decide to extend the range some of the monometals run out of velocity & you can (I said can) experience expansion issues.

There has been discussion here regarding heavy for caliber (especially 7mm) pills running the ragged edge or past the threshold of stability. I've read a handful of reports here regarding the 7mm 160TSX in a factory twist being stable on paper (round holes) yet performing erratically on game. To me, that is also a stability issue.

If you can order your barrel with a slightly faster twist than normal; why not? Generally speaking, it shouldn't hurt anything but a light jacketed bullet, the monos will not care as you cannot get a jacket separation with a bullet that doesn't have a jacket

Cutting Edge states the 155grn MTH will stabilize in a 1-9.25" with a quoted G1 BC of .610. In all honesty you'll be closer to .600 but that is still pretty **** good for a mono that will still carry good velocity from the 280AI.

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MTH_J07



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