Building a 500 yards muzzleloader?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Brent, Jan 17, 2004.

  1. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    This is "the" one I'm looking at for this fall. Smokless powder, accuracy, and speed. [​IMG]
    http://www.savagearms.com/muzzleloader_home.htm

    I'm into the extended hunting season too. [​IMG]

    Click on the "muzzleloader series" tab to the left for retail $ and selections.

    [ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: Brent ]
     
  2. Quaken

    Quaken Member

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    Now I can hear you thinking what the hell is this guy doing talking about muzzleloaders here but as all of you know when you're trying to kill a big buck, antelope, Elk but everything that has walk by is junk. Well if you have a muzzleloader season after the regular season you've got another chance but sure enough you're sitting in your tree stand or set up in a blind here comes one of the biggest animals you've ever seen but he is 400 yards away and you have a muzzleloader in your hand.

    I have my own ideas on how to set up a long-range muzzleloader the question is the(do you use smokeless, a sabot, a conical or cast your own Bullets) then what about to the gun, do you build your own or is there something on the market that will already do it???????????? [​IMG]

    [ 01-17-2004: Message edited by: Quaken ]
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    When you get the gun and powder you want, try the hornady SST in 250 or 300g. Have worked very well for me up to 250y. Someone on this board did some long range testing. Can't remember what the outcome was but I think the bullet went subsonic between 4 and 500 yards using 777 powder. A little more speed with smokeless would get you to 500.
     
  4. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Harv,
    They also make that bullet in 200 grains as the T/C Shockwave. Hornady makes the Shockwave for T/C in all three weights.

    Have you seen tne new sabots from Hornady, little stick projects down from bottom of sabot, you put three pellets on it and the whole unit, pellets, sabot and boolit down the barrel.

    Where abouts in Manitoba do you live? Maybe drop me an e-mail and I could get you some 200 to try out.
     
  5. old fart

    old fart Well-Known Member

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    Quaken - Are you interested in a long range modern muzzle loader or a traditional rifle?
     
  6. Quaken

    Quaken Member

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    Leaving the issue of safety with smokeless powder for another posting the problem with long-range shooting with muzzleloaders is velocity consistencies being that the best ballistic coefficient of the Bullets or sabot that are out there is about .2 two .3.
    Myself I am leaning toward a 45 caliber. One thing I've been playing with is taking .458 casted Bullets meant for a 45/70 and sizing them down to .454 then putting the cup from a sabot under the Bullet. The muzzleloader I use it is a Remington 700 ML. I have try all different weights of sabot as long as I cleaned a barrel in between each shot there are okay. I've tried to power belts they are more accurate than sabot but they sure are expensive but the lead Bullets meant for the 45/70 shoot the most accurate.

    [ 01-18-2004: Message edited by: Quaken ]
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ian, I don't shoot my muzzle gun in winter, but would love to try some of the new 200g bullets you have when the weather warms up. Always looking for a reason to burn some powder. Are they in stores yet? email sent
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Does anyone know the BC for the 200, 250, and 300g SST/Shockwave bullets?
     
  9. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Think you find that most muzzleloaders are in the relatively light weight range 7 lbs. 150 gr of 777/Pyrodex is a stout load with a 250 shockwave. The 300 is even worse but has knockdown for large game such as elk.

    Could make an arguement that the 200 is on the light side and low BS. Tried it and did not like it compared to the 250 in MY gun. The 250 has a BC of around .200 if I remember right.

    I shot the 26" encore 209x50 with 100 gr 777 and it shot 1" with MV of almost 1800 pfs. 150 gr of 777 left it at MV of 2200 and groups of around 2.2". Took 3 deer out to 170 yards this year with it, all one shots each.

    Do not have my figures in front of me, but I remember it was zero at 100 and about 14" low at 200 and 36-45" at 300 with 250 shockwave and 100 gr 777. Ran the figures for 150gr and it was not worth the larger groups, higher ES and recoil in my opinion.

    Got a good friend that tried the Savage smokeless and he is averaging the same as me. So not sure what advantage you have when compared to 777 and not being able to use smokeless muzzleloaders everywhere.

    Now if someone is building one of a kind ULR muzzleloaders that weight 15 + lbs and knows enough to make it smokeless (safely and you want to take the risk) then all bets are off.

    Rangefinders are absolute must over 150 yards.

    BH
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    BountyHunter, I had similer results compairing 100 and 150g charges of 777. If you used powder you could bring up a charge by 5g at a time and mabe find a faster load that was accurate. I like the pellets and 100g seems to be quite accurate in my gun.

    Found some BC's. 250g-.210 BC, 300g-.250 BC. Couldn't find anything for the 200g. If anyone has it please post. Thanks

    [ 01-20-2004: Message edited by: Harv ]
     
  11. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Another long range in-line is Knight's new .52 caliber Disc rifle. Shoots a very nice looking Barnes bullet, about 375 grains and it carries out very well. Have to use loose powder with that rifle, no pellets since it has an extended tube in the front of the breachplug thru which the fire shoots. Ignition takes place near the base of the sabot. Designed for 150 gr. of 777 powder.
    I hunted with this rifle, took a nice antelope at 230 yards in Wyoming this fall. Had drops to 300 and it is quite flat, cannot recall exact numbers as we only hunted a couple of days. I have another rifle right now but too cold to shoot the sucker. This Barnes bullet probably has the best BC of any muzzleloader bullet I have seen.

    Long shots are challenging, but they don't get you rev'd up like getting inside 25 or 50 yards to a good buck.
     
  12. johnny

    johnny New Member

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    check out precision bullets dead center in .45 and 195 grain bc. of .375 cecil epps knows his stuff and would be the guy to get you to reach out
     
  13. Quaken

    Quaken Member

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  14. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

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    There is an old, out of print book by A.O.Neidner, called "The Muzzleloading Rifle", if I recall correctly. It is a very detailed book on the most accurate target and long range - 1K - rifles of the 19th century, right down to false muzzles and paper patched bullets. I haven't seen a copy of it since I was in highschool. If, by chance, you should look for it and find a source, I would like to buy one myself. I tried Amazon with no luck so far.