Budget Scope Advice

[ntg]

Hello. First, I'm mostly a lurker on here. Mostly because you're in a different league than me, and I mean that in skill and in expendable funds (single income home raising 5 kids). However, I read a lot on LRH and I hold my opinion very high of your advice and knowledge. So I ask for advice. I've got an old Rem721 (grandpas) and it's fine for what it is. The stock has a growing crack on it and I'm going to need another rifle for one of my boys in just a few years anyway. So I've picked a rifle that I think will do, but want your take on a few scopes. Before getting to the scopes, my whole intent with this rig is to be able to use it for hunting (and I'm usually making my kills at 2-400 yards) but to also be able to play (target shoot) in the 5-800 range. I've chosen the bdc type reticles thinking I'll not mess with the turrets in the field, but probably adjust when target shooting. Here are the four on my list and with the list I also ask is a 3-9x40 good enough to do what I'm thinking? What do you think would be best with what I've explained in my intent for this rifle. Thanks in advance.

Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 and the 4.5X-14X-42mm with adjustable parallax (This being the most costly of the four)
Refield Revolution 3-9x40 and the 4-12x40mm

 

[MudRunner2005]

Here's my best advice. I actually have and use this same exact scope, rings, and the bases, b/c they will fit both a 700 long-action and your 721 action.

Konus M-30 Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 8.5-32x 52mm 1/10 MIL

EGW 1-Piece Heavy Duty Picatinny-Style Base Remington 700 Long Action

TPS 30mm TSR Picatinny-Style Aluminum Rings Matte Low

For under $500, this is the best setup I have found.

 

[ntg]

Thanks, Mud. Those rings and base look great. I probably didn't make it clear, but I'm planning on keeping my 721 as is for now, but will try to save up and put a better stock on it down the road. Also, I'll look into that scope more, but it I really want to keep it simple and slimmer. I'm pushing very thick brush at times when hunting and the less the knobs (turret and battery for reticle) stick out the better. I don't want the illuminated reticle.

I know it's probably better to have a true LRH set up and a "normal" hunting set up, but I don't see it in the cards for now. I don't really see me hunting anything big (mulie on up) with it out past 500 yards for a number of reasons. One being, the rifle is in 7mm-08. Also, the caliber is set, as I was given the reloading supplies, dies, etc. needed for it. This is the rifle (yes, I know some of you will laugh/scoff at): http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/CenterfireBoltAction/x7.asp

Anyway, keep the good ideas coming. I need all the wisdom I can get.

 

[bruce_ventura]

Those Marlins are nice rifles for the price. As with all entry level production rifles, the accuracy is hit or miss sometimes, and boresight alignment between the barrel and rings can be off bit. With handloads, you could easily end up with a good shooter.

I've spent a lot of time with all the Burris E1 scopes. They have low glare, high contrast, and good edge-to-edge resolution for the price, and that is important for hunting. The turrets are easy to dial with the covers off. These scopes hold zero well and have low weight. Burris warranty and customer service is also quite good (although I've never had to use it).

The E1 reticle is easy to calibrate to your load by simply turning down the magnification a bit. 3-9X is a bit low for target shooting. I would recommend you spend the extra $50 for the 4.5-14X model. You now have the choice of 1" or 30 mm tubes. The 30 mm tubes provide more elevation adjustment but cost more. I'm on travel right now and don't have all the prices in front of me.

For a non-illuminated scope, there isn't much out there that beats the E1 series in value. You can tell I really like the E1 scopes and I use them on some of my rifles. More often than not, it's what I recommend for a hunting scope in that price range.

HighPowerOptics has them in stock, as well as all the Burris rings. Some of the new Burris stock is not on the website yet. We can set you up with 5% off coupon. PM me if you're interested or if you don't see something on the website.

 

[deathwobble]

A friend of mine bought his daughters a couple of those marlins in 243 one managed a near 400yard shot on a 180" muley a a year ago or so .... Also not a real big fan of the EGW picatinney rails the slots have a huge groove length wise that dosent make to much sense to me when the more surface area the rings have in contact with the base the more evenly the force of recoil is distributed on the base and less likely to move. I would go with the Larue Tactical 20moa extenended base $80 or even cheaper Blackhawk or Weaver 20moa $30 over the EGW just my opinion.

As for the scope never tried a Konus scope but I can say I have tried almost every model of Vortex scope and they all performed flawlessly. For 5-800 yards I would not go over 24x power on my current set up Im running a 22.5 power vortex and I normally run it on 20x. I have had no problem getting hits out to a mile.

 

[ntg]

Bruce, that's some great input. I was thinking that E1 was out of my price range, but maybe not. Maybe I'll save a little longer.

I was also pointed toward the Timberline scopes they make. How do they stack up to the E1 or normal fulfield II? I wonder about low light with the smaller objective.

deathwobble, I was able to look at a Diamondback last night. Seemed pretty good. I'll look into those bases.

 

[MudRunner2005]

A friend of mine bought his daughters a couple of those marlins in 243 one managed a near 400yard shot on a 180" muley a a year ago or so .... Also not a real big fan of the EGW picatinney rails the slots have a huge groove length wise that dosent make to much sense to me when the more surface area the rings have in contact with the base the more evenly the force of recoil is distributed on the base and less likely to move. I would go with the Larue Tactical 20moa extenended base $80 or even cheaper Blackhawk or Weaver 20moa $30 over the EGW just my opinion.

As for the scope never tried a Konus scope but I can say I have tried almost every model of Vortex scope and they all performed flawlessly. For 5-800 yards I would not go over 24x power on my current set up Im running a 22.5 power vortex and I normally run it on 20x. I have had no problem getting hits out to a mile.

All 4 of my EGW HD model rails have solid blocks, and don't have a goove down the middle...

And if the groove was a huge deal, why does Badger do it on their $200 bases, too?

 

[bruce_ventura]

Bruce, that's some great input. I was thinking that E1 was out of my price range, but maybe not. Maybe I'll save a little longer.

I was also pointed toward the Timberline scopes they make. How do they stack up to the E1 or normal fulfield II? I wonder about low light with the smaller objective...

For hunting in low light I prefer at lest a 6 mm exit pupil at a magnification of 6X or more, which would allow me to make a good shot on big game at a few hundred yards. That means the objective should be at least 36 mm.

Both Timberline scopes have 32 objectives, so they fall a bit short of meeting my criteria. You would have to reduce the magnification only to 5X, however, which is not a huge deal. That is nearly the lowest mag for the 4.5-14x scope, though. The eye relief is 5", so your rings must allow the scope to move forward about 1.5" further than the Fullfield models. Timberline scopes do not appear to be any lighter, despite the smaller objective.

The E1 scopes have nice turrets under the caps and the eyepiece does not turn with the zoom ring. That means your Butler Creek scope cap doesn't rotate when you change magnification. The Fullfield II models have smaller turrets that require some effort to grab onto, and the eyepiece turns with the zoom ring. For target shooting at longer range, you will appreciate the larger turrets on the E1.

 

[ntg]

Well, I've done some more reading/research. I like Bruce's recommendation in the E1 Burris.

So here's what's still on my list, and those marked "*" are those I've actually been able to look through. (Some brief thoughts follow)

*Revenge: 4-12x42 (Looked pretty good and w/ $40 rebate, tempting)
*Revolution: 4-12x40 (Looks goods and like the slim profile, low weight)
Fullfield E1: 4.5X-14X-42mm (like the better turrets)
Fullfield II: 4.5X-14X-42mm
*Vortex DB: 4-12X40 (good clarity, eye-relief, just o.k.)
Nikon BM: 4.5X-14X-40 (want the hard to find mil-dot; not too sure about their BDC)
Legend Ultra Hd: 4.5-14x44 Mil-dot (hear good things, and have binos in series that are quite good for the $$)
*Trophy XLT: 4-12X4 (actually fairly good, seemed better than Prostaff. AO...iffy.)
Trophy XLT: 6-18x40 (wonder how clear is at 18x and AO...iffy.)

General thoughts. I like the idea of keeping it light as I may cover 5-10 a day when hunting, and it's easier in dense brush. I'd also like the higher powers for traget/plinking, but recognize it won't be any help is it's not clear focusable on the high end, which I've seen on some inexpensive scopes.

Set my max at $350. Right now both the Redfields are very tempting, and I'd really like to look at the E1 and the Legend. Any help or thoughts?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Well, I've done some more reading/research. I like Bruce's recommendation in the E1 Burris.

So here's what's still on my list, and those marked "*" are those I've actually been able to look through. (Some brief thoughts follow)

*Revenge: 4-12x42 (Looked pretty good and w/ $40 rebate, tempting)
*Revolution: 4-12x40 (Looks goods and like the slim profile, low weight)
Fullfield E1: 4.5X-14X-42mm (like the better turrets)
Fullfield II: 4.5X-14X-42mm
*Vortex DB: 4-12X40 (good clarity, eye-relief, just o.k.)
Nikon BM: 4.5X-14X-40 (want the hard to find mil-dot; not too sure about their BDC)
Legend Ultra Hd: 4.5-14x44 Mil-dot (hear good things, and have binos in series that are quite good for the $$)
*Trophy XLT: 4-12X4 (actually fairly good, seemed better than Prostaff. AO...iffy.)
Trophy XLT: 6-18x40 (wonder how clear is at 18x and AO...iffy.)

General thoughts. I like the idea of keeping it light as I may cover 5-10 a day when hunting, and it's easier in dense brush. I'd also like the higher powers for traget/plinking, but recognize it won't be any help is it's not clear focusable on the high end, which I've seen on some inexpensive scopes.

Set my max at $350. Right now both the Redfields are very tempting, and I'd really like to look at the E1 and the Legend. Any help or thoughts?

I can clearly see a 100 yard target and count the bullet holes and distinguish the bugholes from one shot to another, at 32x magnification with my Konus M-30. I don't understand why people have issues at high magnification in close range, you can get close with your parallax adjustment, but fine-tune with the occular adjustment. Mine is the clearest, most impressive $350 scope I've ever owned. It tracks perfectly with it's marks, and resets accurately. Repeatable adjustments. And I will probably be buying another one soon since I can't afford the NF I want...

 

[ntg]

Thanks, Mud. I was thinking I need to see what other reticles they offer in this scope.

 

[Sully2]

All 4 of my EGW HD model rails have solid blocks, and don't have a goove down the middle...

And if the groove was a huge deal, why does Badger do it on their $200 bases, too?

MANY of the pic style bases have a center groove. For what reason I have no idea...but having the groove is a POOR reason to not like EGW rails.

 

[MudRunner2005]

MANY of the pic style bases have a center groove. For what reason I have no idea...but having the groove is a POOR reason to not like EGW rails.

It's just brand snobs, people who like to show off their money, or someone who is uninformed and has no personal experience, but read 1 bad rumor on the internet, or something like that.

Personally, I'm not gonna spend $200 on a base, and $200 on a set of rings, unless it's going on a real big bore, like a.375 Cheytac, .408 Cheytac, .416 Barrett, or .50 BMG. Or a safari rifle with huge recoil, or something like that.

EGW rails are more than strong enough. And if you don't feel they are, then buy the HD model aluminum bases. Mine have been excellent.

 

[ntg]

Mud, I'm going to see how the base works, but plan to go with your recommendation if it doesn't. Anyone with additional experience or input on my list of Scopes?