Budget build, advice please

[300R]

I am sorry about all the spelling mistakes in my last post. I am a teacher and was on the bus with my kids to their swimming lessons. Very bumpy ride and can't see much on my blackberry screen!

What kind of fps can I expect out of a 7 wsm with 180gr bergers in a 28" barrel? I could build this on a stevens 200 long action and use the magazine that came with the gun (7mm rm or 300 wm) to feed the 7 wsm with 180gr bergers? Regarding the coment about a long throat, what information do I need to tell the guy I'm ordering the barrel from to get that part right?

Stevens 200 long action with the custom parts in 7wsm would be my choice,tell the barrel maker that you want it chambered for a long action,my guess is around .240-.255 freebore is what you would be after.
V-bull precision in Canada makes a dbm for the savage/stevens which uses AI mags.

 

[Fitch]

Stevens 200 long action with the custom parts in 7wsm would be my choice,tell the barrel maker that you want it chambered for a long action,my guess is around .240-.255 freebore is what you would be after.
V-bull precision in Canada makes a dbm for the savage/stevens which uses AI mags.

There somes a point where the cost of improved performance gets pretty steep for a tiny difference. This is one of them. Going from a stock Savage dbm to a custom one to gain maybe 1/4" of COL will cost as much as the custom barrel chambered and installed. That amounts to about $10.00 per fps of velocity gain. It would be less expensive to get that performance by going to a different stock cartridge - 7RUM for example.

Hard to believe that those small differences actually matter in the field. I can see going for it if cost is not a constraint and one is free to spend whatever on a rifle if for no other reason than the wow factor. But in a practical sense, a 7SAUM in a long action is no more cartridge, if it's even as much cartridge, than a 7RM in a long action, and the 7RM should handle bullets on the heavy for caliber end of the spectrum better with it's bigger powder charge, especially with a longer than normal barrel.

Different strokes for different folks, but it's possible to double (or more) the cost of the rifle with out doing a darn thing to improve the pounds of meat in the freezer or satisfaction with the results per hunting trip. If it were me, once I've got a top notch custom barrel chambered for a reasonable cartridge, I'd spend the extra $500.00 to $1,000 on a better scope, instead of tweaking the cartridge, and expect that to do more for my hunting success than 50 or 100 fps in MV, or custom bottom metal.

YMMV

Fitch

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Fitch, That is a good point about not spending the money when it is not neccesary.

Back in the 60's and 70's we had to wildcat cartridges and use expensive custom barrels to get the performance and accuracy we wanted for long range hunting. We had few choices from manufacturers who all offered the same standard limited cartridge line up in the same basic rifles for the basic 300 yard long range shot. In the mid to late 90's that all started to change as more long range cartridges began to be offered and good accurate rifles available to shoot them in.

Now it is no problem finding an over the counter rifle easily capable of 800 yard kills in the $500-$750 range. Very limited bedding and trigger work is all that is required. Unless you are really just wanting to spend some money these rifles will serve you well. The cartridges you are discussing here are marginal to 800 yards anyway on anything larger than deer when there are so many other good cartridges available that will get you well beyond 800 on larger game. If you are considering elk drop that to 500 yards with some of these little 7's discussed. And that is only if you are using the best premium hunting bullets on the market and waiting for that perfect shot. I don't like to be limited. Shots on trophy animals are just to hard to come by to be limited. So my point is within the range you are looking that suit the cartridges you are looking at you can save some money and get a good over the counter rifle.

If you are serious about shooting long range beyond 800 yards regularly and out to over 1000 yards then spend your extra money on a nice long range rifle chambered in a cartridge capable of killing big game animals efficiently at long range. These little 7's are not the ones. I didn't learn what I say sitting and reading on a computer. I learned through doing it for 40 years and seeing hundreds of animals shot.

The little short mags and 7mm remington can not drive a 180 grain bullet fast enough to gain anything within the effective range of the cartridges considering big game hunting. They are actually a detriment. Within the best effective range of these cartridge for most big game hunting these little 7's are best served with a lighter premium hunting bullet that will do the job in all hunting situations. Why load a cartridge with a bullet great on targets to well over 1000 yards when the cartridge is not a good choice on large big game beyond a few hundred yards. Use some logic here. As I read over these forums I see many people putting to much emphasis on theoretical ballistic charts and gurus on those instead of listening to people with years of long range hunting experience seeing hundreds of animals shot.

If you think you want to use a 7mm for long range hunting then do not include elk size game in the equation unless your long range is under 600 or so yards. Increase that a little if you consider starting around the 7mm STW, 7mm-300 Weatherby, 7mm RUM, 7mm Allen, 7mm SIN or something like that with enough power to send the heavy, high BC 7mm bullets downrange with authority.

If your hunting is only deer, antelope and caribou type hunting then the 7's can be fun to shoot game at 1000 or so yards considering it is a big 7. Sorry I got carried away but I just see way to many elk size animals lost each year to the 7's and I try all I can to caution people against using them. If you are hunting game less than elk then have fun with it.

 

[busse fan]

Thank you for the very informative post. I don't know anything about long range hunting I have only shot at paper and steel that far. What factory rifle for less than a grand will kill elk or moose at 1000+?

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Remington 700 in 338 RUM or 300 RUM will do it. Cabelas had them last year in the $500's with case and cheap worthless scope. Need to bed the action good and free float the barrel. You can get a good trigger at midway, graff's or several others. Cabelas where I live always has Weatherby Accumarks in 30-378 and 338-378 in the $1100 range used but like new. Negotiate. The 338-378 wby accumark is at the top end for large big game at 1000 yards.

After saying all that you are taking a gamble on a factory rifle that you can get tuned in for 1000 yard kills. It can be done and I have these exact rifles that will do it. I said to 800 yards in the other post and pretty good odds on that. Beyond that range and a custom is the best choice with a custom action. However if you have a magnum action you can screw in a quality match barrel in either 300 RUM or 338 RUM and be ready for 1000 yard game most of the time. Nearly guaranteed if you can find a good smith to square and true it. Make sure the barrel is perfect square to the action. These two cartridges are the most inherently accurate ones I have used on a standard magnum action with top killing power on large big game to 1000 yards. That comes from a lot of experience. I have worked with the RUM since before remington introduced it and anything off the RUM case never ceases to amaze me with long range accuracy and low shot to shot velocity spreads for an extreme cartridge.

With the specialty bullets now available in 375 the 375 RUM is also excellent for extreme range shooting at large big game. Cutting Edge for instance has a 320 grain hunting bullet with .84 or so BC that can be shot 2800 fps out of the 375 RUM. Other companies also have high BC 375 bullets. The 378 Weatherby is an exceptional long range hunting cartridge with these new bullets capable of pushing that 320 CE bullet over 3000 fps. If you happen to find a deal in a used one of those. They are usualy low round count and the barrels will last forever in 375.

These cartridges I listed will kill the **** out of anything you hit by driving heavy high BC bullets through any animal at any angle without having to limit your shots. I don't like to be limited when shots at trophies are hard to come by and they never seem to be standing where I want them or positioned the way I want them to be. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[busse fan]

Those CE bullets really do look amazing but the only problem is that I can't just go online and order a few boxes. They won't ship them to Canada. I have to build a rifle around bullets that I can get here, amax, berger smk and also lapua bullets. I didn't see a Canadian distributer for the GS bullets either. I like the idea of a .30 because it's not as big as a .338 for deer but with the bullets I have available will it work on elk at 1000?

I do want to decide something soon as it taked 4-5 months to get a barrel and I want to have this all done with some range time before december for moose season.

Thanks

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

The 300 RUM shooting 200 grain Nosler Accubonds with a .588 BC over 3200 fps is very popular with long range elk hunters. I shoot that one at elk because it is a top premium hunting bullet that holds together well on large big game at 300 RUM velocities. For caribou, deer, antelope, etc I shoot the 208 Amax at 3210 fps and took animals in the 1000 yard range and further this year with that load. The amax is to fragile for elk hunting unless doing the high shoulder shot where it will blow a softball size hole through that region of the elk and drop him on the spot. Other than that hit it is to fragile. In 30 caliber the 300 RUM is the one I would do because of ballistics, accuracy and easily available components. Since you are looking at elk and moose long range I would not consider shooting smaller than 30 caliber. Why take risks when you don't have to?

I have recently been testing the 190 grain Berger hunting bullet out of several of my big 30's at long range with excellent results. The accuracy and ballistics are easily there for 1000 yard elk kills however it will be this fall before I test them on game. On targets to 1000 meters they are shooting extremely well. The 210 berger also gives great ballistics. The 190 has less recoil in my light rifles so I have been testing that one lately and very impressed with it so far.

I have six tikka light rifles and all of them are accurate enough for 800 yard big game hunting. The two best ones in that rifle for large big game at long range are the 300 win mag and 338 win mag. I have both of these and have made big game kills to 800 yards with them. I got all of mine on sale in the $450-$550 range. So there is another choice. The longest shot I have made with the 338 winchester was a 66" moose at 1104 yards. I like these two cartridges because I can shoot them well in light rifles without a muzzle brake.

 

[busse fan]

So should I just buy a 300 rum in a sendero for a grand and call it a day? It will cost me that much or more to build a 300 rum on a savage action anyways and the rum has a magazine that works right?

Can you load 300 rum ammo with the long range bullets to fit in the sendero magazine and still get that 3200 with the 200gr class bullets or is this a single shot also if they have to be seated out further and won't fix in the magazine?

 

[300R]

I have owned a sendero in 300 rum and it was a great shooter!My 210 berger loads were single feed only but a wyatt's conversion is an easy fix if you feel you need to load them from the mag,if you hunt deer 90% of the time and at 1000 yards max, i don't think you need to burn that much powder to get the job done ethically but that's just me,also how do you handle recoil,would you need a brake installed?Please don't think i am trying to put you off because a sendero in 300 rum for a grand would be your best choice hands down,but if you shoot frequently and want to use it for paper/steel it becomes expensive to load for,especially if you say you want to get in a lot of practice.

 

[busse fan]

I would like a brake put on, yes. Doesn't matter how loud it is as I will put ear protection on. I do realize that shooting a 300 rum isn't cheap but with all the longrange bullets costing over a buck or more each anyways the only difference between a 300 rum and a 7mm rem mag would be brass cost and powder cost.