Brass sorting

[Jack300WSM]

Just wanted to know thoughts on brass sorting. Do you, have you noticed a difference and when sorting what would your weight perameters be as far as range from what to keep in this batch as opposed to a separate batch? I've never personally done it but just need one more thing to drive me crazy..

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Just wanted to know thoughts on brass sorting. Do you, have you noticed a difference and when sorting what would your weight perameters be as far as range from what to keep in this batch as opposed to a separate batch? I've never personally done it but just need one more thing to drive me crazy..

If you are going to sort BRASS you need to do by H2O volume. not by case weight.
Just purchase a good Brass like Lapua and shoot!
You will need to focus more on neck tension, seating depth, powder weight, what powder your loads like, what primer along with primer seating depth, what bullet your barrel likes.

You should post what you are shooting for (hunting/target) then your cartridge and components (bullet type weight and twist of barrel & length).

When you have all your components together and shoot different Brass/bullets/powder/primers along with many other variables.
Need to record your D.O.P.E. on shot strings and use a good chronograph.
After doing all this you may have narrowed down to what your rifle likes.
Then it may be time to chamber a new barrel.

Personally we don't weigh brass. If were to focus on brass it would be by volume.
Brass is one of our most important components and the most amount of work prepping. First purchase good brass- we us Lapua then with new brass we make sure that the Flash Holes are cleaned properly (we ream flash holes) then TRUE UP Primer Pockets, Anneal every reload, NECK Turning - we turn necks to a specific bushing for neck tension. Every neck to make sure that then neck is concentric. Then have a very good Case Trimmer. I suggest a Henderson.

If you really want to get into the "Weeds" on Brass Cases get yourself a "NECO Concentricity Guage". You can check wall thickness and "banana" of the case.
My advise is just purchase good brass and worry about everything else.

BTW we are prepping about 1,700 cases for different cartridges as I write this post. A LOT OF WORK FOR SEVERAL DAYS!!!

 

[Jack300WSM]

Good stuff right there. I've been reloading for around 30yrs. I've pretty much always gone Norma, Lapua and recently ADG as far as brass goes. So I've never thought the effort was worth it to be honest. Just interested incase I was missing out on another variable that would be worth doing.

 

[Rick Richard]

Maybe I am the only one who has a bit of a different opinion, but when I sort I get low ES and SD data. I also use quality brass to start with too.

 

[yobuck]

By and large i believe that its mostly the bench rest shooters who sort brass.
And you will find that at least among the long range benchresters they will sort them several ways, including high shot low shot on the target. Ten rounds that all land in the same area might just be better than ten where the cases all are the same weight, or hold the same amount of water.
As a hunter, we never really know for sure what might have caused the miss, it could have been that a tree branch jumped in front of the bullet.
And what does it matter anyway at that point in time?
In Pa. there is an old cliche that says, (when lead aint flyin nothin is dyin ).
And make up your mind wether you agree or not, there is some truth involved in that.
And by the way, this is a hunting site.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I never sort by weight, it has been proven many times that a 5 grain difference in weight may or may not change the internal volume. I use volume as my sorting and I do not weigh cases filled with water…I measure in CC's.

Cheers.

 

[chadjamesr]

Another way to look at the question would be "At what distance does brass sorting / prep" make a difference"? For instance, is it worth measuring case capacity if you are only shooting 300 yards? At what distance do you really notice annealing and neck tension?

Everyone seems to have a different definition of "long range" and I have found that the processes that bench rest guys go through to be competitive really have no basis is long range hunting or basic target shooting. It is like applying F1 technologies to your car that you just drive to and from work everyday.

 

[BrentM]

Anyone who believes sorting brass by weight likely has never done H2O volume testing. In the old days people mixed brass and would sort by weight to get close. Keep in mind, some brass may be as much as 50 grains difference in large magnums. That can have an affect. For todays long range reloader we know to not mix brass and generally we use quality brass. Using quality brass of the same brand typically assures you a case that reacts similarly across the lot of brass you possess. That nets a minimal affect on accuracy etc. Why volume....... the largest concentration of brass in a case is near the head/base. The web across the body and neck of the case is thin and relatively uniform and inconsistent brass thickness is spread out over that length and diameter. Minimal affect unless the neck area is out of whack, which is why neck reaming, neck cutting, and mandrel dies are used.

My personal opinion after going through this bs is to mandrel expand, ignore brass weight, don't neck turn, and live a happier life.

 

[coyote wacker]

If you are going to sort BRASS you need to do by H2O volume. not by case weight.

OK....if a caliber brass case is the same outside dimension we will say 223....if it weights more it has less volume if it weight less it has more volume ...outside dimension is alway the same....
Weighing is a lot more accurate you can weight easily to .1 of a grain put water in a case you will not get all of it out and be as accurate measuring....

 

[gohring3006]

I found sorting by volume helped me years ago when I couldn't afford quality components. Now, I know to start with quality brass, quality bullets, quality dies, and a good quality scale, I can get single digit SDs without much effort.
Everything has to be quality. Even the quality of my annealing technique. I say if someone is loosing sleep over that sort of question, go ahead and sort it, it's not going to hurt anything at all. But i believe in tolerance stack and if you're sorting by weight or volume, then you should be sorting your bullets by weight or length or both. If not, inconsistent bullet length will cancel out your meticulous case sorting. If you can achieve half moa and single digit SDs without all the sorting, you've opened up some time to learn to read wind better, because 9 times out of ten that's where the misses are.

 

[QuietTexan]

OK....if a caliber brass case is the same outside dimension we will say 223....if it weights more it has less volume if it weight less it has more volume ...outside dimension is alway the same....

You're making two assumptions there: that outside dimensions are actually consistent, and that wall and head thickness are the same. Both of those are very incorrect assumptions.

There's more mass in the casehead than anywhere else in the case. Any variation in the casehead, the extractor groove cut, or in wall thickness will drastically alter the case weight/ case volume relationship. If neck dimensions vary =/- .0015", so does wall thickness. It's not hard to section a case and measure this for yourself.

Weighing is a lot more accurate you can weight easily to .1 of a grain put water in a case you will not get all of it out and be as accurate measuring....

Who cares if you can't get it all out right away? All that matters is how much water was in it when you weighted it. Let it dry out the same way as after wet tumbling.

1. Insert primer plug
2. Put on scale and zero
3. Fill with water (water, alcohol, whatever you use)
4. Record weight
5. Dump and move to next case.

I normally use 91% isopropanol mixed with distilled water, the only change is I use a different factor when converting weight to volume. Even then this is a relative comparison inside a batch, so there's really no concern over how accurate to a standard the math is. The only reason I bother to convert is to make QL more accurate.

Primer pocket plug:

Primer Pocket Plugs

Primer Pocket Plugs Weighing is a technique used to sort cases based on volume. By plugging the primer pocket, the case can be set on a precise electronic scale, filled with water and weighed. Subtracting the weight of the case and the plug from this measurement gives us the weight of the...

21stcenturyinnovation.com

 

[skipglo]

If you are going to sort BRASS you need to do by H2O volume. not by case weight.
Just purchase a good Brass like Lapua and shoot!
You will need to focus more on neck tension, seating depth, powder weight, what powder your loads like, what primer along with primer seating depth, what bullet your barrel likes.

You should post what you are shooting for (hunting/target) then your cartridge and components (bullet type weight and twist of barrel & length).

When you have all your components together and shoot different Brass/bullets/powder/primers along with many other variables.
Need to record your D.O.P.E. on shot strings and use a good chronograph.
After doing all this you may have narrowed down to what your rifle likes.
Then it may be time to chamber a new barrel.

Personally we don't weigh brass. If were to focus on brass it would be by volume.
Brass is one of our most important components and the most amount of work prepping. First purchase good brass- we us Lapua then with new brass we make sure that the Flash Holes are cleaned properly (we ream flash holes) then TRUE UP Primer Pockets, Anneal every reload, NECK Turning - we turn necks to a specific bushing for neck tension. Every neck to make sure that then neck is concentric. Then have a very good Case Trimmer. I suggest a Henderson.

If you really want to get into the "Weeds" on Brass Cases get yourself a "NECO Concentricity Guage". You can check wall thickness and "banana" of the case.
My advise is just purchase good brass and worry about everything else.

BTW we are prepping about 1,700 cases for different cartridges as I write this post. A LOT OF WORK FOR SEVERAL DAYS!!!

Maybe you could save some time if you fill your clothes dryer with corn cobs and just shovel the cases in....set it on HIGH!

 

[yobuck]

Another way to look at the question would be "At what distance does brass sorting / prep" make a difference"? For instance, is it worth measuring case capacity if you are only shooting 300 yards? At what distance do you really notice annealing and neck tension?

Everyone seems to have a different definition of "long range" and I have found that the processes that bench rest guys go through to be competitive really have no basis is long range hunting or basic target shooting. It is like applying F1 technologies to your car that you just drive to and from work everyday.

Well by and large the very serious benchresters are a bit of a different breed in their thought process.
First and foremost their goal is to win, not just be an also ran.
And today the competition is such due to better guns etc etc that they are looking for anything that might give them even a small crumb of an advantage.
Also realize that the heavy gun division 1000 yard record hasent changed ownership in well over a decade.
And that record is only ( in laymans terms ), about one inch smaller than a record set in 1986 by an old friend of mine who did it with a 30x378 with a Unertle scope and used Sierra bullets in un annealed Wetherby cases loaded with standard dies in a Rockchucker press.
Try to find somebody today using Sierra bullets in a match.
And try to find somebody who isnt anealing cases.
Now the fact also is that Earl, ( the old friend ), had a very nice camp that never had any deer hanging at it.
Again his mind worked a bit differently than those who were killing bucks at long range.
If you want to be successful at pretty much anything, find someone who is, and then mimic what they do.
Certainly an accurate rifle is of primary importance, as is carefully loaded and accurate ammo for long range hunting.
But so is the method you use for shooting it.
And so is keeping lead in the air till its over.

 

[Dr. Vette]

If you have the time, I found these two videos on Erik Cortina's site showing his discussion with Jack Neary to be very interesting:





The Hornady Podcast also had some interesting thoughts on it in a recent episode.

The short answer - it's not worth it.