Brass: Military vs. Comercial

[Gregg C]

Not sure where to post this, as I'm loading this for an AR308, but I think it might be of interest, and I'm certain that some folks here can steer me right.
Got me an AR 308, and bought a bunch of surplus ammo, to both break the rifle in and get a supply of brass. I've had real good results in my Win Model 88 308 with H380, so ordered up an 8lb bottle. I have never loaded for an AR, and know very little about the system.
Decided I'd start my initial loading\testing at the bottom. Lyman lists 48.0 for a 150 gr Jacketed SP. Top load, Compressed, at 52grs. Picture is 3 brands of brass. Far right is Federal Cartridge NATO 7.62x51. Middle case is PPU NATO 7.62x51. The case on the left is commercial 308Win from Winchester.
My question is, would you recommend dropping the charges visually to about the same level in the mil spec cases as the Win case to start ? This will of course necessitate having a different load for each group of cases. I'm not looking for crazy accuracy, but reliable, consistent, functioning of the rifle system. Any comments or anecdotes welcome. Looking to learn. Thanks in advance.

 

[ButterBean]

The answer is No

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Good evening
You need to look at load data for the powder you are using along with the bullet. Start at the lower spectrum of the stated charges and work your way up slowly. DO NOT GO BY LOOKING AT THE VOLUME OF THE CASE WITH POWDER. YOUR CASES LOOK OVER FILLED TO BEGIN WITH.
If you have not been reloading and have a good knowledge on reloading STOP and get with someone that can help you out.
This can be very dangerous for you.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I'm guessing that the military brass that you are describing is lake city. It is everywhere. It has been explained to me that the lake city brass has a thicker case, and therefore less capacity. It is inline with your picture. I do not think that you should be alarmed by what you are describing. As long as you trust your powder measuring device, start low, and shoot them.

 

[Gregg C]

I'm not new to reloading. I wasn't real clear, unfortunately. I know that mil spec brass is thicker. This starting load results of a compressed load in the mil spec brass. I guess maybe a better question would be, how much should one reduce a load for military brass, or should one do so at all ?

 

[Gregg C]

The answer is No

I'll give it a whirl.

 

[cohunt]

I'd start at least 2 grains less with Nato brass.

I use lake city brass in my 308 and I can't even get close to "max charge" that uses comercial brass. I use a drop tube.

Any time you change brass you should reduce charge weight and start your load work up all over to be safe.

Can you actually get the " book max charge" listed to fit in your nato brass?

 

[Gregg C]

I'd start at least 2 grains less with Nato brass.

I use lake city brass in my 308 and I can't even get close to "max charge" that uses comercial brass. I use a drop tube.

Any time you change brass you should reduce charge weight and start your load work up all over to be safe.

Can you actually get the " book max charge" listed to fit in your nato brass?

I sort of doubt it. That's the start load, 48grs, in the picture. I'll try two grs less to start, and keep the brass segregated. Thanks. I got kinda startled at the volumn level in the FC case. A sorta oh crap that's not rite moment.

 

[ButterBean]

I'm not new to reloading. I wasn't real clear, unfortunately. I know that mil spec brass is thicker. This starting load results of a compressed load in the mil spec brass. I guess maybe a better question would be, how much should one reduce a load for military brass, or should one do so at all ?

I'll give it a whirl.

You just answered your own question, thicker brass will produce more pressure, each individual head stamp brass will give entirely different results with the same given powder charge and as stated above the pictures in your first post look like a blown primer to a stuck bolt to me

 

[Scott E Ames]

That sure does not seem like the right powder for this job. it will be compressed for your starting load and nowhere to increase the load if needed. Hodgdon's does not even show H-380 as an option for that cartridge/bullet combo on their website. Varget, H 4895, IMR 4064 and IMR 8208 XBR are all good options and I have had good results with all of these over the years. The Hodgdon's reloading data is free online. Go there and get some ideas. I think you will find that H-380 is really a bit too slow for your purposes. I would also start by weighing your various brass to give you and idea of how much to adjust your charges down for military brass(7.62 NATO).

 

[30BR]

Check the burn rate of the powder vs what the gas system needs. Too slow a powder and the action may not cycle. H380 is on the slow side but not THAT much slower than Varget...

 

[Veteran]

Bottom line, you have to meaaure each charge with a powder measure that you have calibrated to a certain charge weight.

You have to know what a safe charge weight is for any given powder you choose. On an AR the powder you choose has to operate the gas system effectively.

You have to know what brand of brass you are using, and how you will get different pressure and velocity from each brand at a given charge weight for a given powder.
You cant just assume its all .308 brass and use the same weight and same powder as in the last brand.

You may need to get some help from someone who is an experienced reloader. Always be safe.

 

[Veteran]

And going visually by sight on filling a case without measuring or weighing is dangerous???

1 or 2 grains will blow you up
......and no one has an eyeball that is calibrated to 1 or 2 gr difference......especially not in different brands of brass!

 

[Howard Van Horn]

Two things to note:

1. Military Brass is thicker and will hold less propellent
2. Load to the velocity (pressure) of military ammo used in an AR, this is usually will be at a lesser velocity.

I also loaded for a Winchester 88 in 308 at one time, the Win 88 is a stronger action (approaching that of a bolt action) than that of an AR. No way would I use my old Win 88 load in an AR, it would (in time) harm the rifle. Also, stick to the 150/168 bullet weight for your AR.