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Borescopes - The good, the bad, the ugly?
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
The bore scope becomes an indispensable tool once you use one.
You can look down a barrel with a bore light and it will/can look good, But when you look at the same barrel with a good bore scope it will scare you most of the time unless it is a premium barrel with very few rounds through it.
If you get one be sure and get one that is at least 16" long so you can inspect the entire barrel. also make sure you buy the 90o head for it.
With the 90o tip you will see any machine marks in the bore and in the chamber. It also gives you a good idea of the throat condition.
You will never be sorry you bought one.
Just my opinion
J E CUSTOM
+1
buy a borescope and never look back. You will never regret it!!!
buy a borescope and never look back. You will never regret it!!!
blacknzr1
Well-Known Member
I have just brought one. I have wanted to get one for a while, but I'm in new zealand and would have to import and it would cost a good $1500.
A guy at the local range told me lyman has one. It's a little monitor type where you save pictures. And at about a 3rd of the cost of the Hawkeye I got it.(and it is really good, all I will ever need)
I have only looked inside my own two rifles. But am already better off.
There is so much you can do, and I have many plans on using it.
Any rifle or barrel I buy now I will ask if I can bore scope it first.
Anyone who says there cleaning method works who doesn't have a bore scope doesn't really know for sure, unless maybe they borrowed one.
There's a whole list of things you can do and check. It takes the guess work out.
Maybe go halves with a shooting buddy to share, you don't need it all the time but they really are so useful.
A guy at the local range told me lyman has one. It's a little monitor type where you save pictures. And at about a 3rd of the cost of the Hawkeye I got it.(and it is really good, all I will ever need)
I have only looked inside my own two rifles. But am already better off.
There is so much you can do, and I have many plans on using it.
Any rifle or barrel I buy now I will ask if I can bore scope it first.
Anyone who says there cleaning method works who doesn't have a bore scope doesn't really know for sure, unless maybe they borrowed one.
There's a whole list of things you can do and check. It takes the guess work out.
Maybe go halves with a shooting buddy to share, you don't need it all the time but they really are so useful.
I own a hawkeye borescope and use it regularly. It is a worthwhile investment.
things you can do:
learn what cleaning methods work best for each barrel you own.
see if the crown is in good shape. You would be amazed how many new rifles have poor crowns.
see if the throat was cut properly
inspect the action where the bolt lugs make contact
inspect the chamber for scratches or anomalies
inspect dies
inspect brass cases for beginnings of a case separation
you can see the color of the primer in a case (one time I had some previously primed cases and wasn't sure if it was 210s or 215s)
After chambering a rifle I studied the throat. I noticed some very minor burrs on the trailing edge of the lands. I was able to determine the first shot removed all traces of those rough edges.
If you were considering buying used gun you will KNOW the bore's condition
I am sure there are more things you can do with a bore scope.......
Check the dog's ears for fox tail seeds... not really, just kidding
things you can do:
learn what cleaning methods work best for each barrel you own.
see if the crown is in good shape. You would be amazed how many new rifles have poor crowns.
see if the throat was cut properly
inspect the action where the bolt lugs make contact
inspect the chamber for scratches or anomalies
inspect dies
inspect brass cases for beginnings of a case separation
you can see the color of the primer in a case (one time I had some previously primed cases and wasn't sure if it was 210s or 215s)
After chambering a rifle I studied the throat. I noticed some very minor burrs on the trailing edge of the lands. I was able to determine the first shot removed all traces of those rough edges.
If you were considering buying used gun you will KNOW the bore's condition
I am sure there are more things you can do with a bore scope.......
Check the dog's ears for fox tail seeds... not really, just kidding
LouBoyd
Well-Known Member
I'm going to play devils advocate. I own a Hawkeye borescope and I have no complaints about how well it functions.
But how much does inspecting a rifle barrel with a borescope tell you? From my experience Shooting a rife carefully for accuracy is a far better indicator of a good or bad barrel than looking with a borescope. I've seen barrels which look very ugly which shoot quite well and the reverse. Certainly a borescope is good for showing a shot out throat, or a chamber which wasn't cut concentric with the bore, but the reality is that if a barrel shoots well there is no no reason to check it with a borescope. At best it will just make you worry. I've only had a couple of cases where having a borescope led me to make a bad shooing barrel shoot better. Those had severe copper fouling which responded to more aggressive cleaning. More careful cleaning would likely have fixed it without the borescope.
I've replaced several bad shooting barrels with new ones from respected manufacturers (Hart, Pac-Nor, & Shillen ) and they invariably shot much better. Some of the old barrels showed problems with the borescope, some did not, but shooting badly was always the deciding factor.
My Hawkeye borescope has more than paid for itself, but from working on engines and generators, not guns.
But how much does inspecting a rifle barrel with a borescope tell you? From my experience Shooting a rife carefully for accuracy is a far better indicator of a good or bad barrel than looking with a borescope. I've seen barrels which look very ugly which shoot quite well and the reverse. Certainly a borescope is good for showing a shot out throat, or a chamber which wasn't cut concentric with the bore, but the reality is that if a barrel shoots well there is no no reason to check it with a borescope. At best it will just make you worry. I've only had a couple of cases where having a borescope led me to make a bad shooing barrel shoot better. Those had severe copper fouling which responded to more aggressive cleaning. More careful cleaning would likely have fixed it without the borescope.
I've replaced several bad shooting barrels with new ones from respected manufacturers (Hart, Pac-Nor, & Shillen ) and they invariably shot much better. Some of the old barrels showed problems with the borescope, some did not, but shooting badly was always the deciding factor.
My Hawkeye borescope has more than paid for itself, but from working on engines and generators, not guns.
Lou,
You are right about some barrels looking terrible yet they still shoot. I have a used 308 heavy varmint barrel that looks like some of Tucson's pothole riddled streets, yet it shoots very well.
On the other hand I have two others that are so cracked/crazed going up the bore for over a foot that there is no way you would want to buy either rifle for market value. One is a 257 Weatherby that still shoots under 1/4 MOA for over 20 rounds without any cleaning and a 6mm-284 that looks the same but got pulled because after just 5-6 shots the group size goes from under 1/2 MOA to 2 MOA.
IMO once you own a borescope you will not want to be without one.
You are right about some barrels looking terrible yet they still shoot. I have a used 308 heavy varmint barrel that looks like some of Tucson's pothole riddled streets, yet it shoots very well.
On the other hand I have two others that are so cracked/crazed going up the bore for over a foot that there is no way you would want to buy either rifle for market value. One is a 257 Weatherby that still shoots under 1/4 MOA for over 20 rounds without any cleaning and a 6mm-284 that looks the same but got pulled because after just 5-6 shots the group size goes from under 1/2 MOA to 2 MOA.
IMO once you own a borescope you will not want to be without one.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Good point, Playing devils advocate is always a good exercise that shows a difference of opinion and will help some make a decision
based on there needs. and encourage debates.
But I for one have used mine many times to solve a mystery as to why a barrel doesn't shoot well or even why a barrel resist fouling. It also allows me to predict the quality and accuracy
of a barrel before it is installed (to a point) and rule out any quality issues before it is installed
Not everyone needs a bore scope, but once you buy one the education begins.
Several of the problems that were resolved that were un-detectable with bore lights, were found with the bore scope were. A pre-threaded and chambered barrel that the chamber had been cut with a roughing reamer or one that had not been cut correctly and had no throat, leade or free bore and pressure would exceed SAMME pressures with starting loads. Another was a cut rifled barrel that had a skip in the rifle cuts about half way down that you could not see until the 90o bore scope was used. The rifling actually lined up with the groves at this point. The barrel was sent back for replacement with no problem. The list goes on and on so I could never do without mine.
I also inspect all new barrels before installation, and re inspect them after break in.
When buying used rifles, it is indispensable in my opinion.
Just an opinion.
J E CUSTOM
So far, believe each of you are right.
Friend has a quality (name brand, stainless, somewhat expensive) barrel, that just does not shoot well.
Low and behold, 5 inches from the muzzle, there is a significant line, all the way around the bore of the barrel. This is not a machining mark...this is a groove - a definite stop and start of the lands AND grooves in this barrel.
Purchased a used 220 Swift for the action and stock. Oooph. Alligator/crocodile skin at the throat and missing 6 inches of rifling. This barrel was used.
My first new rifle that I purchased. Easily has 6-7K rounds down the barrel. Still shoots VERY well (223). Factory button rifled barrel that shows all that a button rifling will show, with very little throat erosion.
Friend has a quality (name brand, stainless, somewhat expensive) barrel, that just does not shoot well.
Low and behold, 5 inches from the muzzle, there is a significant line, all the way around the bore of the barrel. This is not a machining mark...this is a groove - a definite stop and start of the lands AND grooves in this barrel.
Purchased a used 220 Swift for the action and stock. Oooph. Alligator/crocodile skin at the throat and missing 6 inches of rifling. This barrel was used.
My first new rifle that I purchased. Easily has 6-7K rounds down the barrel. Still shoots VERY well (223). Factory button rifled barrel that shows all that a button rifling will show, with very little throat erosion.
I still marvel at the texture and consistency of the Tikka T3 308 barrel my friend owns. Never saw an interior like it. It is a hammer forged barrel with absolutely no reamer marks like you'd see in a Remington. The patina looks similar to a fine bead blasted finish. AND it cleans up so quickly!
I was talking to the gunsmith at Tikka Performance. https://www.tikkaperformance.com/
He said the hammer forging machine that Tikka (Baretta) uses is massive. According to him they start with is very short and large diameter blank. The process irons out all the machining marks. Would have never noticed this interesting interior without a bore scope.
I was talking to the gunsmith at Tikka Performance. https://www.tikkaperformance.com/
He said the hammer forging machine that Tikka (Baretta) uses is massive. According to him they start with is very short and large diameter blank. The process irons out all the machining marks. Would have never noticed this interesting interior without a bore scope.
