Bonded vs Non Bonded - Accubond vs Berger or SST or Ballistic Tip

[Tom Wright]

I shot an antelope with a 300 Berger from my Edge this past August; went thru him with a 2" exit hole. Still ran 150 yards.

The one bullet I have lost confidence in a the Barnes. I shot a grizzly bear a few years ago right behind his front leg as he was quartering away. His right leg (opposite side) flew up in the air and smacked to the ground, only to get up and run into a massive alder patch (like kilometers wide and long). It was very near dark, so my guide said we would return the next morning to fetch him. That night it rained all night and the only blood we found was on an upside down leaf.

I thought maybe I hit him too high. Eight months later I took a shot at a kudu with the same load. Kudu didn't flinch. PH said, "You hit him good, just wait."

Kudu starts to feed a bit, then walks away. PH says shoot him again, so I did and he dropped. When we skinned him we saw the Barnes completely penciled through its lungs. Made me wonder if that is what happened to my grizz bear the fall before. Who knows? That

What he said

same bullet, a 225 .338 Barnes, has killed an African lion and leopard in Tanzania (pretty soft) as well as all kinds of plains game in three other Tanz hunts, two in Namibia, one in Zim (although I did shoot my leopard on that hunt with a Hornady 225 cup and core), a pile of 6x6 elk, four moose in AK/BC and the Yukon, and god knows what else.
Y
I guess if you hunt long enough, s*&t happens.

 

[TxHeartShot]

This past deer season I took a coues with a 168gr Berger with my 7mm Rem Mag, my first kill with a Berger and total destruction of vitals, dead on the spot.

I've taken several deer with the 139gr SST with my 7mm-08 with the same results, quick kill with vitals turned to smush. Some deer with 120gr Ballistic Tips and also the same results.

Now, my buddy took a coues with a 270 WSM and a 140gr Accubond, result was a slower death, bullet went through one rib and both lungs and rested under the skin the on the opposite side. The damage to the lungs was not as severe, a decent hole through them but still complete.

Last week I took a javelina with a 140gr Accubond with my 7mm-08, now usually I take these down with head and neck shots to preserve the little meat they have. In this case his head was behind some prickly pear cacti so lung shot it was, and to the ground he fell. About 15 minutes later as I approached him he pops up about 15 yards in front of me takes a few steps then slowly lays down and expires. Lungs were complete with a nice hole on them but still pretty complete. Now I have taken a couple of these desert pigs with lung shots in the past with SST and BT's and there were no lungs left.

I know bonded bulllets. Are designed to hold together, punch through bone and leave and exit wound, but I don't see them providing a fast kill. The deer I have killed with soft bullets I have pretty much always gotten exit holes and a quick kill.

Now on an elk I get it, its a tougher animal, but I would still want a fast kill, especially on this animal, and I dont see a bonded bullet doing this if they all (Accubond, Interbond, etc) behave the same.

Now I tried these Accubonds because I had some laying around and said why not, heard and read good things but now I'm convinced they don't do what I want. Animals don't bleed out as fast.

Just wanted to share my experience with them.

Stay safe all and enjoy your weekend

I guess I'm old school, still shooting Partitions and A-frames...stuff just falls over dead or wanders a few yards and falls over dead. Haven't jellied any lung material, though. That 160 gr Partition from the 7STW has ended some careers in the elk business! The 200 gr. A-frame from the 300 H&H will kill anything in N. America with not much fuss. Plus, you can eat right up to the hole with both.

 

[Tom Wright]

I have had some similar experiences on some animals—good hit but not the reaction/ knock down you expect. I went back to basics— when the shot is important (the animal is tough/trip was expensive/animal is hard to locate), it all comes home to roost. I don't mind not finding a pig, but totally different on an eland or kudu. On those I ALWAYS use a Swift A frame. It leaves an awesome wound channel and quite often is found in the skin of the off shoulder, flattened like a pancake. All the energy is expended inside the animal, which is what I /you should want. Even if the animal doesn't drop, the wound leaves an incredible blood trail. Of course everything is based on where the animal and the bullet collide!

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

I used the 130 Accubond and the 130 Berger hunting out of two 6.5x47's in Texas. Shots were 100 to 300 yds on whitetail. Both bullets performed good. I was actually surprised with the damage of the 130 AB. Results were very similar to the Berger. Two deer taken with 124 hammer hunters with a 6.5x47 both DRT. But shots were close out of tree stands. I do like what I am seeing with the hammers.

My state is close to going lead free and hammers will be my jump to if necessary from what I'm hearing and seeing.

I guess I'm old school, still shooting Partitions and A-frames...stuff just falls over dead or wanders a few yards and falls over dead. Haven't jellied any lung material, though. That 160 gr Partition from the 7STW has ended some careers in the elk business! The 200 gr. A-frame from the 300 H&H will kill anything in N. America with not much fuss. Plus, you can eat right up to the hole with both.

Used partitions for many years and never was disappointed in performance on game. Call the accubonds my accurate and tipped replacement for partitions. Good Thread

 

[Bearman375]

I shot an antelope with a 300 Berger from my Edge this past August; went thru him with a 2" exit hole. Still ran 150 yards.

The one bullet I have lost confidence in a the Barnes. I shot a grizzly bear a few years ago right behind his front leg as he was quartering away. His right leg (opposite side) flew up in the air and smacked to the ground, only to get up and run into a massive alder patch (like kilometers wide and long). It was very near dark, so my guide said we would return the next morning to fetch him. That night it rained all night and the only blood we found was on an upside down leaf.

I thought maybe I hit him too high. Eight months later I took a shot at a kudu with the same load. Kudu didn't flinch. PH said, "You hit him good, just wait."

Kudu starts to feed a bit, then walks away. PH says shoot him again, so I did and he dropped. When we skinned him we saw the Barnes completely penciled through its lungs. Made me wonder if that is what happened to my grizz bear the fall before. Who knows? That same bullet, a 225 .338 Barnes, has killed an African lion and leopard in Tanzania (pretty soft) as well as all kinds of plains game in three other Tanz hunts, two in Namibia, one in Zim (although I did shoot my leopard on that hunt with a Hornady 225 cup and core), a pile of 6x6 elk, four moose in AK/BC and the Yukon, and god knows what else.

I guess if you hunt long enough, s*&t happens.

The reason you lost the grizzly was you missed vitals, quartering away behind front shoulder? A bears vitals go way way back, if you'd have aimed 2 ft further back it be a dead bear, all you hit was meat....sorry you lost him!

 

[LVJ76]

Here is a fun screenshot from deep in my archive;

View attachment 256278

Thanks for the picture, the Interbond caught my eye, a bit different design than the others.

Thanks for sharing

 

[GLTaylor]

LVJ76,
Very sorry and surprised you couldn't get either Hammer to shoot Very well. Got me scratching my head. Most have had excellent results both on game and grouping?

 

[LVJ76]

LVJ76,
Very sorry and surprised you couldn't get either Hammer to shoot Very well. Got me scratching my head. Most have had excellent results both on game and grouping?

I know, they didn't shoot too bad just not good enough.

Stay safe

 

[Chas1]

Sorry to hear you lost the grizzly.

 

[Lab rat]

So for elk I shoot a 154 Hornady Interbonds
And for deer I shoot 143 ELDX out of a 6.5/06 and they both work great for me

 

[LVJ76]

Thank you all for your input on this subject.

Some of you mentioned the partition and I have used it successfully, but in order for it to expand I have to go through the shoulder and these deer are small enough as it is and dont want to loose any meat.

I have put several partitions on deer lungs and they behaved like the Accubonds did, not the damage or fast kill I want. In one case I had to put 3 partitions on a deer, 2 through the lungs and then a 3rd through the shoulder to put him down.

For shoulder shots they are hard to beat.

 

[Coyote01]

This past deer season I took a coues with a 168gr Berger with my 7mm Rem Mag, my first kill with a Berger and total destruction of vitals, dead on the spot.

I've taken several deer with the 139gr SST with my 7mm-08 with the same results, quick kill with vitals turned to smush. Some deer with 120gr Ballistic Tips and also the same results.

Now, my buddy took a coues with a 270 WSM and a 140gr Accubond, result was a slower death, bullet went through one rib and both lungs and rested under the skin the on the opposite side. The damage to the lungs was not as severe, a decent hole through them but still complete.

Last week I took a javelina with a 140gr Accubond with my 7mm-08, now usually I take these down with head and neck shots to preserve the little meat they have. In this case his head was behind some prickly pear cacti so lung shot it was, and to the ground he fell. About 15 minutes later as I approached him he pops up about 15 yards in front of me takes a few steps then slowly lays down and expires. Lungs were complete with a nice hole on them but still pretty complete. Now I have taken a couple of these desert pigs with lung shots in the past with SST and BT's and there were no lungs left.

I know bonded bulllets. Are designed to hold together, punch through bone and leave and exit wound, but I don't see them providing a fast kill. The deer I have killed with soft bullets I have pretty much always gotten exit holes and a quick kill.

Now on an elk I get it, its a tougher animal, but I would still want a fast kill, especially on this animal, and I dont see a bonded bullet doing this if they all (Accubond, Interbond, etc) behave the same.

Now I tried these Accubonds because I had some laying around and said why not, heard and read good things but now I'm convinced they don't do what I want. Animals don't bleed out as fast.

Just wanted to share my experience with them.

Stay safe all and enjoy your weekend

I've killed more elk then I can count with Berger bullets. Never have I had one fail or needed a follow up shot.

 

[dougduey]

Thank you all for your input on this subject.

Some of you mentioned the partition and I have used it successfully, but in order for it to expand I have to go through the shoulder and these deer are small enough as it is and dont want to loose any meat.

I have put several partitions on deer lungs and they behaved like the Accubonds did, not the damage or fast kill I want. In one case I had to put 3 partitions on a deer, 2 through the lungs and then a 3rd through the shoulder to put him down.

For shoulder shots they are hard to beat.

This is a case of really having to match the bullet to the game you're hunting along with the cartridge and velocity. For thinner skinned game, the BT and SST are probably your better choices. Accubonds are a stout bullet and meant to be driven fast. Depending upon the caliber, the AB starts to lose its "killing power" when it gets below 2200 fps. This is true for a lot of bullets besides the AB.
I suggest you take a look at Nathan Fosters research on wounding/killing for various bullets in multiple calibers and cartridges. Go to his website www.ballisticstudies.com. He has written a book with extensive test data in just about every cartridge you can imagine. He goes into pros and cons for multiple bullets in multiple weights for each cartridge. It's great and very eye opening info.
I can look up the info for the cartridges you are using and give you the highlights if you'd like.
Let me know.

Doug

 

[Bob Wright]

I have 2 experiences with 168VLDH and 180VLDH in 7RM:
Mule deer at 40 yards with 168, broadside behind shoulder, 2" exit, walked 20 yards and tipped over. Complete destruction of vitals, no blood trail. He tipped over and the blood was just pooling around him then.
With the 180, I had a 125 yard shot, down angle, quartering towards me. I chose high shoulder/neck junction aiming for exit behind opposite shoulder. The small elk (300 lbs)
did one 360 spin and dropped. The fragmentation hit all vitals, remainder of bullet turned right and went into gut, but did not open any gut contents, just nicks.
So, at 40 and 125 yds the bullets both performed as advertised.
For this style of bullet, I would avoid heavy bone unless it's ends up in the off shoulder. By then, it's a deadly hit to vitals.
I will be working the 280AI with the Hammer Hunter 143, as it's function also frags in front of a remaining copper slug and these shoot with good accuracy for me.
For trigger time, I will be using the 168SMK's, but also hear these are effective game getters. No experience for me yet. Expect these to perform like VLD's, hopefully.