Blinking/locktime question

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by jon12, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. jon12

    jon12 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 24, 2004
    I have been practicing for a while and a think my shooting technique is getting pretty good(im only 16). Im not recoil shy and i dont flich, although i pull shots alittle bit every once and a while that i think is more of a target panic thing and i usually know when i do it before even looking at the target. I have one problem i cant seem to do anything about and would like to know if there is anything i can do or if it even affects my shooting. When i dry fire my rifle, i blink right when the gun snaps. I generally dont really move the gun, if i do its very slight, but i was wondering, if i blink with the snapping of the rifle, are my reflexes delayed enough that by the time i start to move the gun as i hear it snaps ,has it already gone off, or if a slight blink just doesnt really make a difference in the point of impact. Does anyone else do this and what if anything have you done about it.

    Also, although this is really a differnt topic i thought it was related enough to put together. Do upgrades that reduce lock time such as a faster firing pin make a significant enough difference that it would allow me to shoot more accurately and allow my shot placement to ingnore tiny movements i might make when the pin snaps which are magnified at long range(i guess thats whats causing the blink). Are firing pin up upgrades, faster firing pin, ect. worth while upgrades and how much would i be looking to spend on something like this. How much better are aftermarket firing pins, ect. than the factory rem 700 setup?

    Thanks.
     
  2. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jon and welcome to shooting. Most people can shoot pretty good groups, but to
    shoot really tight groups you have to reach a high level of concentration, practice trying holding your breath why squeezing the trigger,you may need a trigger that requires less pull. I don't think it is a firing pin
    problem, I own several rem 700's and when the groups aren't tight it is operator error
    with me.What is trigger pull on your rifle?
     
  3. 4mesh063

    4mesh063 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure the way you word this if you are saying that you blink intentionaly or if it's an accident. Well, my first advise would be DON'T blink. You will find that your best practice while dry firing is to watch the movement of the crosshairs during and after the lock release. This will dispel the idea you have that you are pulling shots. If you're shooting off a bench and it's a decent setup, I'd bet you don't pull anything. After dry firing a while and seeing a good steady hold on every shot, you can eliminate yourself as a source of error.

    You also should be watching through the scope AS THE GUN GOES OFF. If you remember the Sig line a guy had on here some time back, S1 says "See the fire. Follow through matters.". What he's saying is that if you aren't looking in the scope and see the muzzle flash, then the chances of moving something else are far greater.

    As for the firing pin, I will get to see how they work soon. The seem real nice and are far stiffer. I'm talking about the Tubb's speedlock pin. I can't immagine how having a faster lock time could help accuracy. Other than hitting the primer harder maybe being more consistant or lighting primers with thicker cups, I just don't see what advantage they will provide.

    One thing I did a while back was i wired up my BAT action to my Digital storage scope and used a 5v source to both release off the firing pin, then signal again when it fell. The scope then gave me a period on the waveform. I was sampling at 350Mhz so I think that's plenty fast enough for an accurate reading. I didn't save the results but the timing was consistant enough for me to never beleive anything about lock time ever again. What a crock.

    The pins are $50 from Russ Haydon Shooters Supply and come with a new shroud. They are noticeably stronger. If it were me and money was any concern, I'd opt for some other $50 toy before buying a firing pin. Go get something nice like a guage from Sinclair or Stoney Point and check something that's a little more important.
     
  4. speedbump

    speedbump Well-Known Member

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    The best thing you can do to cure it is to get a mid-priced air rifle & shoot the crap out of it. The pellet isn't out of the barrel by the time your lock time becomes a factor if you flinch. It shows what you're doing IMMEDIATELY. You'll be able to 'call' your shots in no time too.

    Cheap valuable practice. Many of the best offhand shooters in service rifle & highpower do exactly this in the off-season. [​IMG]
     
  5. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Shooting at a public range right next to the guy who has the largest rifle and with a muzzle brake. When you are just about to fire, when his gun goes off, you will feel and see your mistakes. This will help with trigger panic AKA target panic, which I STRUGGLED with for several years in archery and it spilled over into my rifle shooting eventually. The above will help. Also loading "dummy" rounds on occasion help. When the firing pin drops, nothing happens, but if you flinch ect... you will feel any mistakes you are making.

    About the firing pins, typically, when the super strong spings are added, they cause more vibration then they are worth. Give em a try and compare them to factory.

    Regards!!
     
  6. jon12

    jon12 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the help. I have a shilen trigger and the pull is about 2 lbs. The blink is definately not intentional, it seems like its more of a reflex, but its not really a flinch. Like I said, i dont belive i really move the gun, but i notice the blink when dry firing and it was bothering me because i couldnt seem to stop doing it. Probably not gunna worry about a firing pin then, and i guess my blink isnt really affecting my shooting. I ll just keep practicing.
     
  7. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    jon12, don't mean to be a jerk but what you are describing is flinching. The unintentional body movement during firing is a flinch whether mild or severe. That slight, ever so slight movement of the rifle translates to enormous error downrange. A scope changes its Point of Aim by 1" for every 1thou of an inch of reticle movement (general rule of thumb). I bet your little movements are more then 1 thou.

    This is normal with all new shooters. Your body is trying to do a foreign physical activity that causes your senses stress. Just try golf if you really want to screw yourself up.

    Solutions: reduce the recoil of your rifle, shooting a 22LR is the best way to learn form and follow through. You will be amazed at what your body does to compensate for recoil, any recoil.

    Wear much better hearing and eye protection. Reducing these will reduce your natural survival instincts from kicking in. Forget about the he-man attitudes. Loosing your hearing or sight is not cool. I wear 31dB earmuffs AND earplugs when shooting my cannons. I also wear glasses which reduces any effect of muzzle blast. Even if it doesn't seem loud, repetitive stressful stimulus will cause fatigue and strain - remember the Chinese water torture (one drop at a time!!!).

    Dry firing is a great idea. It is very helpful with follow through. You need to see where the "click" goes. If shooting offhand, get into a rhythm like a figure eight and learn how to set off the trigger in the same place. Sort of like snapping your fingers to the beat. If bench shooting, you want to reduce your movements to a min and be surprised when the trigger breaks. I sense that you are concentrating too much on the trigger and not enough on the target.

    These are a few tips that I have learnt over the years of silhouette and bench shooting. Good luck with your adventure but remember that bad habits now will lead to really bad problems down the road.

    Jerry
     
  8. Mark_in_utah

    Mark_in_utah Well-Known Member

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    Here's a little routine you can do to see if you're flinching.

    1. Have your buddy load your gun with a mix of live rounds and dummies.

    2. Balance a penny on your barrel each time you shoot.

    3. Shoot the gun.

    If you shoot a dummy, the penny should still be there. If it slides off, you flinched. It'll also tell you if you're flinching by how the site moves in the scope. It's good anti-flinch practice for shooting the big boomers.

    If you don't see the muzzle flash in the scope, practice on keeping your eyes open when you pull the trigger. I'm prone to having this problem myself. It's called follow-through when you keep the eyes open. On a good varmint gun with a brake you see the bullet hit the target. On a prarie dog that's called the "red mist".

    Mark in Utah
     
  9. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    It's a flinch. Small, big, it still affects your groups if it's present. It's all about total 100% control, mind over matter... you know, the "matter" that's fixin to wallop YOU!

    "Very, very gradually" apply pressure to the trigger as you hold your point of aim with 100% concentration and ZERO movement until the target drops from sight on recoil. Now, follow the sight picture with every once of your ability as it moves.

    Exicuting follow through perfectly entails letting the rifle thump you, while acting like it never did. [​IMG] You must ignore it completely while focusing on following the sight picture like your life depends on not loosing it.

    Everyone has a natural human reaction to flinch up when shocked. Fighting this reaction can be helped by focusing on something else and viewing everything else as being ordinary or mundane in the mind. The more you shoot, the easier this becomes.
     
  10. Brian Rybicky

    Brian Rybicky Well-Known Member

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    Dec 14, 2003
    Jon,

    One thing i didn't see mentioned here was getting the softest recoil pad you can find, if it doesn't hurt, you dont flinch, and the blink goes away.

    Good shootin,
    Brian