A little off-topic but I'm experimenting with 209 in my Rem 700 ML. Ignition is iffy with the factory vented nipple ,as was predicted by the manu. My question is: Does the nipple screw out of the breech plug on the Rem or is it made in one piece ? A couple of places offer replacement nipples to work with the BH 209 but damned if I can get the nipple removed from the breech plug without fear of Bubbaing it up. Help or info would be deeply appreciated.
Blackhorn 209 new black powder
- Thread starter C.E.G2860
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
Brute, Forgive the long post but I have a lot of time with one of these "guns". RANT MODE ON.
A friend picked up a 700ML in .54 cal out of the bargain barrel at a local gunshop. After hundreds of dollars of powder (including BH209), sabots & primers, countless trips to and hours at the range, it's been relegated to flagpole duty. To say it had inconsistent ignition is an understatement. Additionally, one needed a faceshield to keep from getting blasted by the blowby. Unless you are in to massive amounts of self abuse & wish to waste money, I'd put that thing (it's not a gun) on a rack over a fireplace mantle somewhere and spend the time on a good book.
For a good photo of ignition taken by a reviewer, go here: Defining the Sealed Action Muzzleloader
His words? The remington 700ml was "mercifully discontinued". I'm with him 100 percent. RANT MODE OFF. Good Luck. You're gonna need a lot of it.
meatyrem
Well-Known Member
Brute, I didn't pick up whether you have a 209 primer conversion for your 700 ml or is it a regular no.11 primer. But I if that nipple is not coming out it may be tightens way too tight or may be ceased up. Personally I would pick up another breech plug and a 209 conversion nipple ( if you don't already have that ). But I'm not sure if the 209 conversion nipple ( pocket ) is totally sealed either. I believe I heard that that the nipple-breech plug combo has to be sealed but I can't be 100% on that. Other than that you shouldn't have an issue with ignition, esp with a 209 primer. My father had a 700 ml and he had to get the 209 conversion, and had no issues with that. Hope I could help, meatyrem.
I've currently got the 209 primer conversion in my 700. It shoots woderful with loose 777 or pyrodex. No ignition problems with either of those. BH 209 is another story. The manufacturer says you need a closed nipple to get consistent ignition and they're right. Unfortunately my nipple is vented and I am struggling to remove the nipple from the breech plug, ain't sure it's not made in one piece. Was mostly looking for anyone who had made the nipple switch on a Rem. Don't mean from caps to primers or vice versa,but from a vented nipple to a nonvented such as the one offered by 'Precision Muzzleloading" .
As for the time and trouble of getting a 700 ML to shoot and the blowback problem I'm satisfied with mine's performance but just wanted to try the BH 209. The Rem. shoots with any ML I've previously worked with and in the last 30 yrs. that includes most of what's out there either for my personal use or for customers. YMMV.
Brute
As for the time and trouble of getting a 700 ML to shoot and the blowback problem I'm satisfied with mine's performance but just wanted to try the BH 209. The Rem. shoots with any ML I've previously worked with and in the last 30 yrs. that includes most of what's out there either for my personal use or for customers. YMMV.
Brute
meatyrem
Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100% on that sealed (nonvented) primer pocket. I don't have much experience with that particular gun. I had a black diamond ml and know exactly what ur talking about. My scope was silver. After a shot or two it was black on the under side, which I did not like. But, I think you can find what your looking for on that web site you mentioned. Good luck.
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
Brute, is your 700 ML a .50? I think a lot of the problems with my buds Rem was the .caliber. There are a very limited number of sabot bullet combos that he could use. From what I've researched & heard at the range, the Rem ML was a relative failure as more reliable and accurate MLs were introduced. But as you say, YMMV. If yours works for you, that's all that counts. As far as the BH 209, I tried it in a Knight & an Omega & couldn't get any consistency, had hangfires & with that unreliability went back to what worked, pellets.
Yeah it's a 50 cal. .The guys here all blasted the Rem but a lot never tried to make 'em shoot just listened to the crowd screaming about them and moved on to the next "greatest ever". This allowed me to pick 'em up for a song and we currently have three between me and the sons. All shoot reasonable or better. I've found the longer the projectile the better the accuracy. Also they flat don't shoot pellets well, neither 777 or pyrodex. I think that's some of the locals problem in that they were gonna use pellets come hell or high water. No regard for what the rifles liked. JMO.
Brute
Brute
fishybobtrout
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 10
I live in Alabama and up until a few years ago, we didn't have a separate season for muzzleloaders. But when it did open up, we get 5 days right before gun season starts, I went to BassPro and bought and bought the cheapest muzzleloader they had. I didn't want to spend a fortune only to find out that I hated muzzleloaders. I got a Traditions break action rifle in a package with a scope, hard case and a few other items for $200.00. I researched powders and after my friends experience with triple seven decided to go with the Blackhorn 209 powder. I can say that everything they say about it is true. That cheap muzzleloader with a 300gr hornady low drag bullet/sabot will print 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" groups at 100yds with 105 grains of Blackhorn 209 and no deer I've shot with it has been able to handle it. My longest shot to date with it was at 188 yds, but I draw the line at 200 yds with it.
I can shoot 10 -12 times without cleaning, and only clean just to make it easier to load, although i can still load it after shooting that many times. I only wish i had bought a nicer gun because i'm hooked on muzzleloading now. But it is hard to get rid of a gun that shoots that good.
My .02
Bob.
I can shoot 10 -12 times without cleaning, and only clean just to make it easier to load, although i can still load it after shooting that many times. I only wish i had bought a nicer gun because i'm hooked on muzzleloading now. But it is hard to get rid of a gun that shoots that good.
My .02
Bob.
Moose1
Member
Just read on an other forum that New Mexico state ban the use of BH209 in muzzleloader hunting.Reason is that they class it as a Smokeless powder substitute and not a Blackpowder substitute.
Surely other states will follow New Mexico state.
Hope they clearify if it indeed a Smokeless powder sub.or a Black powder sub.
Moose1
Surely other states will follow New Mexico state.
Hope they clearify if it indeed a Smokeless powder sub.or a Black powder sub.
Moose1
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to that forum or better yet the regulation? Until I see it on an official state website, I'd never take anything regulatory on a forum as gospel.
SP
Moose1
Member
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2011/2011-2012_Big_Game_RIB_Optimized.pdf
page 6 of 64;
Definitions and terms: muzzleloader
Anyone planning to hunt in New Mexico next year during their muzzleloader seasons, better read this. The New Mexico proclamation for 2011 is out and on page 6 it states:
Quote:Muzzleloader
Includes rifles and shotguns in which the charge and projectile
are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex
or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless
powder, including "Blackhorn 209" powder is illegal. Legal
muzzleloading shotguns are those capable of being fi red from
the shoulder only. Muzzleloaders may use in-line ignition,
pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets and scopes. See
Restricted Muzzleloader, next column.
Moose1
page 6 of 64;
Definitions and terms: muzzleloader
Anyone planning to hunt in New Mexico next year during their muzzleloader seasons, better read this. The New Mexico proclamation for 2011 is out and on page 6 it states:
Quote:Muzzleloader
Includes rifles and shotguns in which the charge and projectile
are loaded through the muzzle. Only black powder, Pyrodex
or an equivalent substitute may be used. Smokeless
powder, including "Blackhorn 209" powder is illegal. Legal
muzzleloading shotguns are those capable of being fi red from
the shoulder only. Muzzleloaders may use in-line ignition,
pelleted powder, sabots, belted bullets and scopes. See
Restricted Muzzleloader, next column.
Moose1
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Moose1. Looks like the micromanaging, rule by minority mindset has hit the game commision of this state. I guess they want hunters to wound more animals than they kill. Cancel my out of state, money spending, tourist dollars for NM this year, thank you. I'll take them someplace where I'm welcome. SP
Moose1
Member
IT's a contry debate.Majority of hunters hunt with BH209.
BH209 is on a line between a Black powder sub and Smokeless sub.
Hope that it will be on the hunter's side.
Just an action in Court could define where that substitute powder stand.
Moose1
BH209 is on a line between a Black powder sub and Smokeless sub.
Hope that it will be on the hunter's side.
Just an action in Court could define where that substitute powder stand.
Moose1
smokepoler
Well-Known Member
Yep, and it looks like the ones that want us to wear buckskin jackets and coonskin caps have won out over those that wear fluorescent orange. All I can says is I'm thankful I live in a state with more enlightened, intelligent game commissioners. My Savage smokeless is still a one shot, make it count muzzleloader and I'd rather see a hunter with that in his hand than some old scattergun pattern flintlock just to be politically correct. But as they say YMMV.
