Black Powder question

[lilharcher]

Just purchased my first ML and am eventually going to get into ML hunting.........I'd like to do a ML hunt in New Mexico and the regulations say Black Powder, inline ignition, sabots, and pelleted charges are legal, but smokeless powders are illegal......SO MY QUESTION - Are the Triple 7 and the IMR White Hot pelleted charges considered "Black Powder" or "Smokeless Powder"...........I have read a bunch of things online that call these pelleted charges both "Black Powder" and "Smokeless", just trying to determine if you can use these charges in New Mexico. Thanks!

 

[ENCORE]

Just purchased my first ML and am eventually going to get into ML hunting.........I'd like to do a ML hunt in New Mexico and the regulations say Black Powder, inline ignition, sabots, and pelleted charges are legal, but smokeless powders are illegal......SO MY QUESTION - Are the Triple 7 and the IMR White Hot pelleted charges considered "Black Powder" or "Smokeless Powder"...........I have read a bunch of things online that call these pelleted charges both "Black Powder" and "Smokeless", just trying to determine if you can use these charges in New Mexico. Thanks!

Pellets are NOT smokeless propellant. They are a blackpowder substitute.

 

[FrontierGander]

not sure what muzzle loader you got, but I highly suggest you go the blackhorn209 route if your muzzle loader will accept it.

 

[FearNoWind]

I'm a fan of Pyrodex.

 

[meatyrem]

+1 on the Blackhorn

Pyrodex-triple 7-white hots-shockeys gold-blackhorn all black powder substitute. Stuff like Goex is real black powder.
DO NOT use smokeless in a black powder rifle. Smokeless is same as what's used in center fire ammo. Only if you have a smokeless front stuffer but check state regs for that.

 

[thresher]

Hi all, I'm the new kid on the block but been shooting BP's for over forty years. I've shot nearly every substitute out there and for the most part I've nothing against them but if you're going to shoot a muzzle loader, shoot with black powder... sure it's a mess at times but the end result remains the same... slug out the barrel and you get one shot. It's also stable. I've used substitutes in my Sharps and always went back to BP.... perhaps over tradition, perhaps because it's the way it should be... who knows. What i do know is there's yet to be an Elk, Deer, Antelope or Pig walk away after getting hit with a 100 grain load behind a round ball out of my 54.

 

[Red Sparky]

Just purchased my first ML and am eventually going to get into ML hunting.........I'd like to do a ML hunt in New Mexico and the regulations say Black Powder, inline ignition, sabots, and pelleted charges are legal, but smokeless powders are illegal......SO MY QUESTION - Are the Triple 7 and the IMR White Hot pelleted charges considered "Black Powder" or "Smokeless Powder"...........I have read a bunch of things online that call these pelleted charges both "Black Powder" and "Smokeless", just trying to determine if you can use these charges in New Mexico. Thanks!

Black powder or black powder substitute. Savage rifles or other muzzle loading rifles that shoot smokeless powder I would question. G&F has been known to check loads on those types of muzzle loaders. Also make sure you do not put in for the "primitive muzzle loader season" as those are side lock or flint lock open sighted hunts with loose powder. I think sabots are also illegal during that season.

 

[ohiohunter]

Black powder or black powder substitute. Savage rifles or other muzzle loading rifles that shoot smokeless powder I would question. G&F has been known to check loads on those types of muzzle loaders. Also make sure you do not put in for the "primitive muzzle loader season" as those are side lock or flint lock open sighted hunts with loose powder. I think sabots are also illegal during that season.

I don't think primitive hunts are offered any more. Thumbing through the 2014 proc and there is nothing noted primitive, not even unit 15, so I don't think this should be of any concern. NM defines a legal MZ as a mz no smaller than 45cal, scopes and sabots are legal for all elk hunts.

To the op, NM MZ hunts are not an easy draw for residents and if you're a NR you'd better play the lottery if you draw. I'm not sure if land owner tags can be used for mz season. Either way good luck!

 

[lilharcher]

Thanks Guys......I just picked up a .50 Austin Halleck and cant wait to send some lead down range to determine its capabilities.

 

[Red Sparky]

They are called restricted muzzle loader hunts. Unit 9, 33, and 52 I think. Page 136 has the definition of restricted muzzle loader and page 135 has the definition of muzzle loader. The last page of the deer hunts list the restricted muzzle loader hunts. The new 2015-2016 regs are online at New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

It is not hard to draw a resident tag if you put in for the right units. The deer may be few and far between but if you know where they are you can get one. You can also get a private land owner tag for deer, just research them as I get drawn deer muzzle loader every year without land owner tags so I have never put in for one.

 

[ohiohunter]

My mistake. Thought he was referring to elk but he didn't specify game.

 

[Red Sparky]

Not your mistake....All he said was a ML hunt here in NM. I was just pointing out that for deer there are restricted muzzle loader hunts here where what was listed may be illegal. My mistake on only going to deer because you are right on trying to draw the elk tags here. I still play the luck of the draw, about the same as hitting a big payoff on the slots. Being a resident I can save a lot of money by getting a draw tag and not paying for a landowner tag. I put in for deer to go hunting and I can buy a whole beef from the butcher for the cost of hunting cow elk on private land.

 

[Timeout]

I'm a fan of Pyrodex.

Not trying to start a controversy, but I dislike Pyrodex. Back in the day I did alot of primitive black powder shooting, as in almost daily. There were not so many choices of black powder propellants back then as there are now. My very first purchase was a Ruger Old Army revolver. I did not have any powder purchased for the revolver and consequently borrowed some Pyrodex. I was told that it was a direct one to one substitute for black powder. The cap and ball revolvers are limited by chamber design as to how much powder can be stuffed in behind the ball. I filled the chamber to the fullest extent and seated the ball. I proceeded to shoot at a steel target. The shot produced very little recoil and just dented the steel. I purchased my triple F black powder a short time later. Filling the revolver chamber with the same amount of triple F produced dramatically different results from the Pyrodex. There was a great deal more recoil, a gorgeous cloud of white smoke, and the lead ball sailed completely through the steel. Admittedly, this was not a very scientific test, but it was convincing. I recently purchased a more modern muzzleloader and will be doing load testing with various powders using a chronograph when the weather permits. This may, or may not, change my opinion of pyrodex,

 

[meatyrem]

Unless the pyrodex was also triple f then I'd say yes there may be a difference. But if it was double f pyrodex compared to triple f black powder then there will be a significant amount more of black powder in the chamber than the double f pyrodex. The triple f is a finer powder and more can fit in the chamber. 50 grains of double f is less potent than 50 grains of triple f.