Bigger is better theory or truth?

[wv270wsm]

Okie man I believe you nailed it .
Hydrostatic shock produced by a bullet big or small is a true killer with the proper shot placement. Growing up in Wv we can legally kill up to 11 deer most years . I've seen more than a few that the ol man slayed . He hunted with a German made 300 weatherby as long as I can remember . Yes it is a " bigger" gun than needed for whitetail deer here in Wv . But until he started shooting nosler ballistic tips every deer he shot with it was bang flop maybe a kick or two . That was shooting 180 Hornady bullets. He started shooting the noslers and he started having a few runners . And back to the hornady bullets he went .
I personally have shot a truckload of deer with my 270 wsm and all but 1 were drt. The one that did run was shot with the same bullets I've been using but he just had something else on his mind like the doe he was trailing. I've been shooting the 130 gr sst bullets over a stiff charge of rl 17 with great results .
It's a guaranteed kill if the bullet goes into vital organs doesn't matter weather or not it's a 17 cal bullet or a 500 bmg it's when things don't go as intended that a bigger bullet may be needed.
My oldest son has tagged out the last 4 years with his 7 mm08 shooting the 120 gr sierras . And as far as I know even one gut shot one went down immediately . And I believe that bullet weight out of it produces enough hydrostatic shock that it causes drt kills.
I hope to get to test out my new 7mm08 and 120 ballistic tips later this week during our early doe season. I may post some pics

 

[YZ-80]

My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit........as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake......

This says it all. I had a very similar experience, starting out with a 700 BDL in .30-06, only to buy a .243 The very next season and that BDL sat in my safe for 25 years. I like medium range cartridges that are speedy and flat. With the proper bullet selection in the appropriate quarry, you'll rack up DRTs all day long.

 

[zb338]

I use a .338 on everything because I want quick kills. It works very well
and kills deer like a bolt of lightning.

Zeke

 

[Blacktailer]

This says it all. I had a very similar experience, starting out with a 700 BDL in .30-06, only to buy a .243 The very next season and that BDL sat in my safe for 25 years. I like medium range cartridges that are speedy and flat. With the proper bullet selection in the appropriate quarry, you'll rack up DRTs all day long.

So is the 243 a better killer or could it be better shot placement than with the -06?
FWIW I once watched my brother put 4 shots into the boiler room of a blacktail buck with zero effect. It ran about 150 yards and finally keeled over. There wasn't anything left in the heart/lung cavity but red soup All of the shots were fatal but the buck took a while to catch on.

 

[CRaTxn]

I wish I remembered the bullets used in the 06 but it was 20 plus years ago, that being said I wonder if the different construction and technology now makes a world of difference. Should have mentioned in my post that all shots where the deer ran were right in the vitals, heart/ lungs destroyed. That being said every deer taken with a 12 gauge using 2 3/4 slugs ran everytime too. Blow the top of the hearts right off but somehow they still manage to run off! Luck of the draw or bullet construction, maybe both! Thanks for the reply and your experiences

...............................................................................................................CNS- shoulder/spine/brain hits produce more DRT than heart/lung hits. Heart/lung results differ depending on what the heart was doing at the moment of impact i.e. if the heart was in compression, then likely the hydrostatic energy plus bullet wound channel will cut oxygen off to the brain = DRT. If the heart is drawing in blood it seems to be more capable of withstanding the damage and the animals will run for as long as it has oxygen in the brain.

 

[CNY Yote Hunter]

I grew up in Clinton County, thats as far upstate as you can get.

I'm in Onondaga county which is still slug gun only, Madison county, Oneida county, Oswego county all surround Onondaga and they are all rifle. We are one of the few counties left that isnt rifle, hopefully soon though

 

[CNY Yote Hunter]

Funny story - my cousin did Marine winter survival in Greenland, their guide was 75-80 yr old native carrying a 22LR. Said that was his Polar bear gun. My cousin asked how does that work, he said either thru the eye or thru the earhole. My cousin says what if you miss. Native, says then gun goes to next person in the family and you go to heaven. Said that gun had been handed down several times over 100 yrs because of a miss. Ouch.

Lol!!! That's rough

 

[YZ-80]

So is the 243 a better killer or could it be better shot placement than with the -06?
FWIW I once watched my brother put 4 shots into the boiler room of a blacktail buck with zero effect. It ran about 150 yards and finally keeled over. There wasn't anything left in the heart/lung cavity but red soup All of the shots were fatal but the buck took a while to catch on.

I just think there is something about the 6mm that might just strike the right balance when it comes to cavitation/shock in small to medium sized game and I think it does a lot of organ damage.

The other thing you mention harkens back to the "Deer that wouldn't die" thread we had been chiming in on back in August. Sometimes these critters just won't give up.

 

[nicholasjohn]

If DRT results is what u are after on whitetail then from my experience bullet placement is the most important factor. Behind the shoulder and they run 99% of the time. High shoulder shot turns the lights out on the spot

I'm in full agreement with this guy. The only thing I'd like to add is that if the deer isn't all excited, they sometimes drop at the shot with a hit behind the shoulder. If the deer is running when you shoot it there, it's going to keep right on running until it bleeds out and falls down.

Shoulder shots knock them down quite handily, but really waste a lot of the bambi-burgers. I stay away from that whenever possible, but sometimes you just have to do it when you need to anchor the animal on the spot. I had to do that a while back, when I was shooting a buck that I didn't want to jump the fence onto a property we didn't have permission to hunt on. One Lightfield Hybred 12-gauge slug through both shoulders took care of that right now. It trashed both shoulders, but there was a bunch of meat on the rest of the animal that didn't get away. One of the lads back at camp said to shoot for the shoulders, and if you want more meat shoot more deer. That's all fine & dandy, but I still prefer to use the rib cage shot when I can.

 

[Gregger]

I'm in Onondaga county which is still slug gun only, Madison county, Oneida county, Oswego county all surround Onondaga and they are all rifle. We are one of the few counties left that isnt rifle, hopefully soon though

Im just south of you, Chenango County.

 

[freddiej]

I forgot my popcorn so I will weigh in on this one. I have had a variety of slugs go through my 30-30, 270 Win, 257 Rob., and my father's 30-06. for the muley and white tail we ended up shooting in Calif (Lassen county) were rather big, nothing truly massive but very respectable; we tried 180's in dad's '06, nothing special. they were able to be tracked. my 30-30 had 110 grain varminters from Sierra and Speer. at 300 yards deer never took a step after being hit. They might have hunched up and jumped but they always landed and keep going to the ground. next season I loaded 125 and 110 grain slugs in dad's old '06 and sighted it in at 125 yards, his median shot, and we got two deer that just sort of just got anchored to the spot they were shot. I also started taking neck shots only from about 150 yards away or nearer. body shots(vitals) were 150 and above. still the bucks just sort of died within 10 feet of the spot I shot them. later on when I got my 270 Win I tried out the same theory of light and fast with light construction. this seemed to be the trick for planting deer on the spot. these were all high neck shot. blowing the corroded artery and the spine out. instant stop. my 270 Win was far more accurate than my 30-30 so I was confident to take farther neck shots. shot placement outweighs weight, or diameter in my mind. but if you have to take vitals, heart and lung, shots for deer it is very simple. the slug has to be thinly skinned and will open up at the mere hint of a bone or heavy muscle tissue. on the subject of monoliths (Barnes, Hornady, cutting edge), the work better at short to medium ranges, except the one barnes slug (30-30), you put that in a longer range cartridge and you fling it to 600+ yards it will still stop a deer nearly on the spot you hit it. a 572 yard shot proved that to me and my dad when I accidentally (total brain dead mistake) loaded the 30-30 150 grain slug into dad's 30-06 cases instead of his 30-30 cases.
the shot was nearly perfectly disastrous, wind drifted the slug to a place it should not have been, the deer jumped just before impact, the deer got hit in the air, the slug opened up to over .750" and crushed it's way through the ribs and deflected through both the heart and one lung. the deer came down dead.

talking Elk, Bear, Hogs, Moose, and .. the construction of the slug should be tailored to those game. thicker jackets, open up slower, slightly deeper penetration. this goes especially for Hog and Bear. DG slugs are in order. heavy big diameter slug are very called for.
For Hogs I like large heavy slugs. .338", .375", .429", .458" are my go to diameters.
Bear I like big diameter and heavy .375" and larger.
speed goats (pronghorn) 25-06 with 110 grain to 120 grain slugs from 400 yards are sufficient.
later tatters.. I have to go get groceries.

 

[Shawn the printer]

I think it's all about placement. The older I get, the less I like getting kicked. I may have to pass on a few shots, but head and neck with small calibers work just fine.

 

[LVJ76]

Okie man I believe you nailed it .
Hydrostatic shock produced by a bullet big or small is a true killer with the proper shot placement. Growing up in Wv we can legally kill up to 11 deer most years . I've seen more than a few that the ol man slayed . He hunted with a German made 300 weatherby as long as I can remember . Yes it is a " bigger" gun than needed for whitetail deer here in Wv . But until he started shooting nosler ballistic tips every deer he shot with it was bang flop maybe a kick or two . That was shooting 180 Hornady bullets. He started shooting the nosiest and he started having a few runners . And back to the hornady bullets he went .
I personally have shot a truckload of deer with my 270 wsm and all but 1 were drt. The one that did run was shot with the same bullets I've been using but he just had something else on his mind like the doe he was trailing. I've been shooting the 130 gr sst bullets over a stiff charge of rl 17 with great results .
It's a guaranteed kill if the bullet goes into vital organs doesn't matter weather or not it's a 17 cal bullet or a 500 bmg it's when things don't go as intended that a bigger bullet may be needed.
My oldest son has tagged out the last 4 years with his 7 mm08 shooting the 120 gr sierras . And as far as I know even one gut shot one went down immediately . And I believe that bullet weight out of it produces enough hydrostatic shock that it causes drt kills.
I hope to get to test out my new 7mm08 and 120 ballistic tips later this week during our early doe season. I may post some pics

Like you I've been using the SST, I use the 139gr on my 7mm-08 and get DRT's. Also this coming weekend I will be trying out the 120gr Ballistic Tip on Coues, we'll se how they work, just need a good specimen to give me a chance. Good luck on your hunt

 

[SidecarFlip]

I look at guns as tools so my toolbox has various firearms in various calibers in it. From handguns to safari rifles, each has a specific use. I choose my weapon based on the hunt.