Bigger is better theory or truth?

[308cal]

The ladies have always told me that thicker is always better!

 

[BigJohnH]

Bigger is better...….. depending on a couple things, 1 the animal you are shooting and 2 the distance required to take the animal..... you don't need a bigger cartridge just a bigger bullet. For instance a .308 with a 110 gr bullet will easily put a wood chuck in the ground, 150 gr bullet a deer on the table and 180-200 gr a black bear down.... you don't need a 300 win mag to do any of it even at distances out to 650 or even a 1000 yds. again depending on the animal you want to take. So bigger is better.

 

[John Polk]

To many factors play a role in DRT shots-one of them is luck. I've hunted for 30 years and taken a good number of animals and I'll agree with what many have posted. Bullet construction, placement, energy/energy transfer, temporary/permanent wound cavity, calm vs high alert animal, etc. all play an important role. Short of headshots, nothing is a guaranteed DRT.
Back to the original question. Many times bigger is better. Example:. Shoot a deer in the lungs with a 22LR-contrast that with a 270 or 338 wm.

I have always used .270 with a 130 grain bullets and had excellent results. I believe speed and placement are necessary to get your quarry as long as you use a reasonable cartridge.

 

[PBR driver]

If bigger was always better we would be shooting a .505 Gibbs.
Sometimes we make the mistake of horse power instead of shot placement and bullet performance.

 

[deaddownrange]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

 

[deaddownrange]

I'd like to chime in, I have shot alot of critters myself, many whitetail with a 12ga., and .50cal.,54 cal black powder, .300 win mag to name a few, but I now use a 6.5 CM, and EVERY! animal has been a bang flop DRT! Not bragging, just saying , I have tracked many shot with the other calibers, but to date not one with the 6.5 , and other hunters I convinced to start using had same results, Is it magic?

 

[Alan lafin]

After reading all of this thread, it seems to me bullet performance and shot placement are the top two determining factors.

 

[West Calamus]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

Just a thought from the old timers on why some deer run and some drop when the lung cavity is soup. If the heart is full of blood when the bullet does its hydrostatic effects that effect carries to the brain and the deer drop because of central nervous system paralysis. Have no idea if it is true.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

Good observation> I totally agree with you. I started out with a 7mm-08 loved it's performance. Then re-barreled it to a 7mm-08 AI (Lilja bbl) "plug for Dan" Then I had a semi-custom built 25-284, ( also a Lilja bbl) and that's all I've shot ever since. I've shot nothing more than a 85gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip @3390 fps and with proper shot placement, they are DRT. Bullet never leaves the animal. I can wind it up a bit faster, but the group falls off. I've shot everything from Elk down to coyotes with it. IMHO, less is more.

 

[West Calamus]

The ladies have always told me that thicker is always better!

The ladies have always told me that thicker is always better!

You must be using a bull barrel on your rifle

 

[mdk777]

Well, in NY State my uncle had a lease on some old oil land.
NY is a slug gun only (idk, might be some counties in the Adirondacks that can use rifle)
Any way, lung shot a buck with a 12 gauge slug through both lungs.
He ran up a hill (steep grade ravine) for about 100 yards.

Those slugs make a half dollar sized hole.

Just saying.

Big hole is not the only factor.

He was dead for sure, just wasn't convinced of it yet.

PS, it was this experience that has ruined every TV show and movie since.
People get hit once and drop like rocks.
I'm always going..."wait, he couldn't get even one shot off before dying...really?"

 

[Bounce]

Shot Placement Rules over bullet weight IMHO. My .243 BLR carbine was my go to for years cuz of its flat shooting drt accuracy on neck shots, even on 300+ yd pronghorns. But lately I'ver been attracted to the 265 gr Hornady ftx out of a 444P Marlin. Absolutely devastating on shoulder shot whitetails out to 225 yds. I love that gun and its "powa" (that's "power" to all you prep school Yankees).

 

[cynicrit]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

My experience has been that two holes are better than one. A bullet that is so weakly constructed, or cartridge so under-powered that it can't make it through on a broadside shot, is unsuitable for that animal. The vital factor is the amount of damage done to the circulatory system. Plenty of species-suitable caliber/bullet combinations achieve that and still make a "leaker". I've seen bullets with awesome kinetic energy turn to dust inside an animal on a good shot, and the animal ran like a scalded dog. Then you are left with a tracking job and no blood trail. I've seen animals shot in one side and out the other with cast bullets that were DRT. There are a lot of factors involved which go beyond just how much energy you dump in an animal.

 

[Eagle eyes 17]

Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?

Looking back at my hunting days my rifle of choice was a Remington 30-06 , I would use 165gr Remington hunting bullets for Deer Season both Whitetails & Muleys.
For Elk Season and Bear I would site in with 180gr.
I had experienced both results with these bullets , some dropped on the spot and some ran before dropping.
I even had one of the old double barrel 30-30/20guage short barrel single shot Rifles that I would take on River float fishing/hunting trips, on one trip I shot a bear with the 30-30 and he dropped on the spot.
From my experience shot placement is #1 and as far as Caliber choice I've heard of it going either way.