Bigger is better theory or truth?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Jeremy R Snyder, Oct 19, 2019.


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  1. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    IMO, theory....
    Depends on the guarry, distance requirements, and personal needs/environment of the shooter. ‘Better” is a pretty broad and qualitative term....Likewise with “Best”, commonly used.....
     
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  2. Wolf76

    Wolf76 Well-Known Member

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    To many factors play a role in DRT shots-one of them is luck. I've hunted for 30 years and taken a good number of animals and I'll agree with what many have posted. Bullet construction, placement, energy/energy transfer, temporary/permanent wound cavity, calm vs high alert animal, etc. all play an important role. Short of headshots, nothing is a guaranteed DRT.
    Back to the original question. Many times bigger is better. Example:. Shoot a deer in the lungs with a 22LR-contrast that with a 270 or 338 wm.
     
  3. 340Wby-4-everything

    340Wby-4-everything Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all our friends on here on speed, bullet dia, weight, frontal, sectional, design, etc.. and placement. I'll take the scientific approach and say that bigger is better in 2 regards if you have adequate bullet dia and speed combined or if you have substantial diam and speed combined, then it is proven fact that the damage done by say 25-06, 26 nosler, 300Wby, 338 edge, 340 Wby, etc. then the sheer matter of shock plays an important role and can't be ignored. Hydrostatic, some say hooey, I've seen it and strongly believe it. Just look at a video of ballistic gelatin. With that said, remember we are dealing with a living thing and although made of the same components, they are all different and will to live cannot be measured. My 340 has taken 41 animals all with 200gr hornady interlocks at 3220-3240 and only 6 of them took a step. 2 only a couple steps, a cow elk poorly hit 300 yds , a Gemsbuck bull well hit broke both shoulders and destroyed heart and lungs and he still went 60yds wide open and a bull elk that dropped right there with heart and lungs shot and offside shoulder broken, got up and walked 70-80 yards like he wasn't hit. So placement is key in my book. Agree with the statement if you want whitetails DRT everytime, hit em high on the back edge of the shoulder and that will be your result. Seen it dozens of times without exception. Also, just my .02 cents
     
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  4. Blacktailer

    Blacktailer Member

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    Just some observations. I've shot deer with 22lr (head shots) DRT. Shot with 375H&H (heart shot) ran 100 yards. If you want DRT you need to shoot CNS (neck shots for me). Probably the best deer killer I have ever used was the 30-30 because the bullets are made for the exact MV of the 30-30 unlike most bullets that need to perform at velocities from 308 to 30-378.
     
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  5. saw

    saw Member

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    I did some work for the state shooting deer. The thing that was apparent was deer are tough. Although some variables do apply but the shot that takes out the nervous system will be DRT. The heart lungs shot is a guaranteed kill but may occur 80 - 100 yards away. This wasnt good in the work I did as doing into another's property was bad. There heart lungs is a bigger target. The high shoulder shot which hits the spine at the top of the top of the ribcage puts the animal DRT. Rifles kill by using hydrostatic shock. This is where the design of the bullet comes in and also the angle the animal stands to make sure the shock after hitting the animal is able to transfer enough energy to the organ or spine to damage it to the point of causing a disruption of function. This is why heavier bullets are many times preferred they transfer more energy.

    So IMO shot placement, is number 1 but knowing your rifle and ammo are all crucial.
     
  6. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason most don't use a 6mm for cape buffalo...
     
  7. irishguy

    irishguy Member

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    I use .22 hornet. Head shots only. Ive never had one run more than 3 ft. Ive also never shot a big buck. I leave them for the kids. Ive used everthing in between. 7stw at long ranges. Almost alway drop on the spot. I am lucky ive never had to track a deer.
     
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  8. emp1953

    emp1953 Well-Known Member

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    In my '06 I shoot 165gr Nolser Partitions pushed by 47.2 gr of IMR3031. I developed this load when I first started reloading in 1972 and haven't changed it, except that I slipped Accubonds in there as well. Both hit to a similar point of aim. Both have produced DRT kills repeatedly. And both have had animals with exploded hearts run 50 yards. In my .270win I again shoot Noslers but have found the Accubond's perform better on deer then the partitions. 150gr with 51.1 gr of 4350. Depending on where I'll be hunting determines which rifle I take into the stand. On a western hunt 15 years ago the airline didn't get my rifle and me to the same place at the same time. The outfitter gave me a lender, a Remington Mohawk 600 in .243 with a 6x Weaver scope on it with some Hornady flavor factory ammo. I took two mulies at over 400yds that dropped in their tracks. I felt under-gunned when I left the lodge but quickly I was a believer in that little .243
     
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  9. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    Agreed! Most would highly advise against a .22lr vs a polar bear as well but if you go ask the eskimos that's a round they use all to often with the intended results.. I agree with the right caliber for the right game, just wanted opinion on why the bigger guns on the smaller game dont always give better results. There are some videos out there where a 50 bmg are used on deer, the deer run off after good hits then you see a video of a girl shooting a 243 at an elk 670 yards away that drops on the spot...
     
  10. arch408

    arch408 Well-Known Member

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    How far did the squirrel make it after a head or neck shot? I've shot many prairie dogs with my .17M2 and .17 HMR and none moved far after a fatal shot. I'm pretty sure that a .17 Hornet or a .338 RUM in the ear hole of elk would have same result. Shot placement is paramount.
     
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  11. Glenn Tullius

    Glenn Tullius Member LRH Team Member

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    I concur with most all of you...just sharing my experience. I shot a lot of deer with the 165 SGK in 308 Win. A lot of them did go as far as 75 yards, however, when I tried the 165 SST, and then later the 180 SST because it was more accurate, it was absolutely lights out DOA out to 240 yards on a nice Wisconsin buck, and every doe!
     
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  12. thwatson2

    thwatson2 Well-Known Member

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    Theory or truth? Shot placement is the best indication of how far animal travels. I have a 220 swift, I shoot 50 grain Sierra bk(3900fps) on deer in head or upper neck shots. They don’t run. Yes some deer are gonna walk because I can’t get the shot, oh well. I have a 300 RUM my son in law shot with 225 gr accubond at small deer at rear of lungs....it ran 20 yards. But regardless of this, I wouldn’t hunt brown bear or Cape buffalo with my 220 swift, I’d use my 375 h&h. No real theory or truth, just common sense. We all know what we are capable with our guns, if we actually use them. Our hunt club drops way more deer with 300wm,30-06, 308 and 270s then with 243s. Just our observation. Shoot what you like and can shoot well
     
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  13. djfergus

    djfergus Well-Known Member

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    Lots of variables to go by just one rule of thumb. Bullets construction and how fast impact velocity makes most of the difference. Lead from different bullets varies in softness. I have found that the lead may be softer in one caliber of the same brand and style but just a different caliber size. Go to a website called Terminal Ballistics Research and look at the knowledgebase page for different cartridges. I have found all of the information there to be accurate based on all of my game harvesting from 243 cal up to 30 cal.
     
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  14. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    Neck shot was my placement, I have some videos of it as the optic I use records the shots. They dont make it far but they do still run a bit, never paced it out but within 15 yards I'd say. I'd like to post some videos of the shots, you can slow it down and watch the impact and see the after effects