Bigger is better theory or truth?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Jeremy R Snyder, Oct 19, 2019.


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  1. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    Decided to go for a walk with my son today for a squirel hunt. I relearned a lesson I had taught myself long ago. My son was using his .22lr and I brought a 17 hornet. He had hit 3 squirrels right where he should have and all 3 were drt so to speak. 17 hornet is 3 times what a 22lr is, faster speed, more kinetic energy, heavier projectile.... on and on. I hit 2 squirrels right where I should have and they both were able to make it up a tree before expiring and falling out. So my lesson I learned when I was younger hit me hard again, first deer rifle was a tikka t3 in 30-06, shooting 150 grain factory hornady ammo. I shot a lot of deer with that gun and not 1 of them ever drt. They all managed to leave a nice blood trail, some 30 yards, some made it over 100 yards. This stayed true with heavier ammo as well, went up to 165's then 180's, same results. Did the caliber do the job, yup everytime but was it the best option, not in my eyes.
    My next gun was a 243, shooting 95 grain hornady factory ammo sst. I never had a deer move after a good hit. That being said if I hit a little farther back then intended I still had a dead deer but it was a lot like the 30-06 results, run and then drop. Next gun was a 7mm08, better results then the 30-06 and the 243 for the most part, just found the 7mm08 is more forgiving if you dont hit exactly where you intended to but as far as the drt is concerned the 243 still takes the cake. So my conclusion is the right round is crucial for the cleanest kill which to me means its over as fast as possible. A round that transfers 100 percent of its energy does not punch through but stays in the animal and if placed correctly has better results imo. Why do most hunters say bigger is better when my field results and studies have proved the exact opposite? Anyone else have some food for thought on this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    Susquatch, foul bore, rharfo and 5 others like this.
  2. BoomFlop

    BoomFlop Well-Known Member

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    What bullet did you use in the 7mm-08 to get the DRT kills?
     
  3. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    139 grain sst, hornady round.. factory ammo. That's running a close 2nd for a whitetail round for me!
     
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  4. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Most of my DRT kills on whitetails were accomplished by a 7STW shooting a 162 A-Max bullet into the shoulder. If the bullet was a bit back the A-Max destroyed the lungs but deer ran 20-30yds before realizing that they were dead.

    IMO, Bigger is better (cartridge & bullet) if DRT kills are what you're after. But if you just want quick, humane kills most cartridges and bullets will work on whitetails when shot placement is good.
     
  5. BoomFlop

    BoomFlop Well-Known Member

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    Varmint Hunter

    The 162 gr Amax held up to the STW velocity even on the whitetail shoulder?

    ive been considering the Hornady 168 gr ELDm Superformance but was worried the lightly constructed bullet wouldn’t hold up even at 308 Win velocity of mid to upper 2700 range.

    Steve
     
  6. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    I've heard both sides of this as well, some used to swear by the amax/ eldm.. some would swear against them. I've never tried them cause a lot of the hunting bullets now have almost the same bc's as the match rounds so I instead use the hunting projectiles at the range so I'm not switching constantly
     
  7. BoomFlop

    BoomFlop Well-Known Member

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    I believe that as much expansion as possible while still getting to the vitals kills the best. Especially with the slower muzzle velocities of the 308 Win case and all its “offspring”.
     
  8. del2les

    del2les Well-Known Member

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    Just my experiences, but when I lived in the South, I and my family and friends killed hundreds of Whitetail (very liberal limits) with varied calibers. Most of those were shot with 30-06's. I have seen, heard and experienced numerous DRT hits from 150, 165 and 180 grain 06's, (mostly Sierra GK and Speer 165 BT) but there were a few that ran a few short yards before expiring. Bullet construction, location of impact and animal wariness seemed to be factors.

    Personally, I have shot deer with everything from a 22LR, 222Rem to 12 gauge slug, and while most dropped in their tracks, a rare few, regardless of caliber/load, jumped and ran 20-50 yards. ALL those runners were lung hits. I have watched as lung placed 444 Marlin with a 240HP destroyed ribs/lungs in and out on a 120lb doe only to see her run 50+ yards, and similar things with 7RM 140gr SP and a 6mm 100SP. Then I have dropped DRT deer and large hogs with a 222/223 loaded with 63SMP's and 62TBBC.

    So, I believe if you place a proper bullet in a 30-06 and place it in the right areas, they will drop DRT, or more accurately, drop and expire without running. High shoulder impacts or breaking one/both shoulders can drop them and allow the few seconds for expiration with reduced ability to get back up and do the death run.
     
  9. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    This doe ran 90 yards, 3006 180 partition @75 yards
    A6CA1878-7EF7-4498-9FF6-3E2A57B69DEC.jpeg
     
  10. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    Same experiences I've had, hit or miss on how far they make it but they always at least ran when I hit them in the vitals with the 06
     
  11. snox801

    snox801 Well-Known Member

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    Well I’ve never had anything not drop after being hit with my .375 AM. Lol
    Well I think it has more to do with speed than the size. Every thing falls right over with my .257 Roy but It would have its limits.
     
  12. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    I wish I remembered the bullets used in the 06 but it was 20 plus years ago, that being said I wonder if the different construction and technology now makes a world of difference. Should have mentioned in my post that all shots where the deer ran were right in the vitals, heart/ lungs destroyed. That being said every deer taken with a 12 gauge using 2 3/4 slugs ran everytime too. Blow the top of the hearts right off but somehow they still manage to run off! Luck of the draw or bullet construction, maybe both! Thanks for the reply and your experiences
     
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  13. jmcmath

    jmcmath Well-Known Member

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    Whitetails don’t like dying and I eat shoulders. They can run for a minute, throw a big bullet and follow the buckets.
     
  14. Jeremy R Snyder

    Jeremy R Snyder Well-Known Member

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    I refuse to shoot the shoulders or the neck as well cause I cook everything! My father swears neck shots are the only shots to take cause they never move but to me that's a waste. Dead is dead though and to each their own lol
    The 06 and the 12 gauge definitely leave buckets to follow lol