Big Cat

[ORCON]

No, I wouldn't support relocation in a lions case for a couple reasons. The biggest is I don't think based on running lions in MT, ID and Wa that there is a place that actually isn't well to over stocked with lions, we are in severe need for more lions to be killed, our deer and sheep populations are plummeting in lion country, especially Bighorn sheep have been hit hard. MT just started a big lion study so they can get better lawyer proof numbers so they can open up the lion season even more because of how over ran it's gotten.
Don't get me wrong of any animal out there I have the greatest respect for a lion, they are efficient and skilled predators, they are the finest example of a hunter, they don't waste game or leave animals wounded like wolves, they hunt one on one not in a pack, just amazing animals IMO BUT they need managed just like everything else since man is so broad across the landscape now we have to take responsibility for it and manage it or let it go and suffer the consequences which is slow starvation and disease.

My brother runs dogs for cats, coons, and fun. His girlfriend took a nice cat south of Kalispell but there's a lot of hunting territory he and his friends stopped running dogs in due to wolves. We hunted the Swan River valley and Thompson River area and we hit wolf trails that looked like folks were running dog-sled teams. I saw a lot of wolf trails hunting south of Wise River almost 10 years ago. Anyway, I guess my point is predators of any variety need to be managed but I am greatly disappointed with our wolf program.

 

[No2psi]

Sure I know they're opportunists, whats available at the time. What I meant to say was. Weak and old first , then take what's available.
The less energy they expend on a kill the better. Especially during cold winter months. It takes less time for them to recover.
Id rather see relocation over killing. I don't think the population in general supports killing. Seems like the population is more concentrated in some areas than others. They're a beautiful animal, I feel it's more awesome to see a big cat alive over a dead one. Dead ones just lay there. I'm sure maybe I don't fully understand. Seeing animals shot for no plausible reason other than to trophy hunt is perplexing to me. Especially since I enjoy hunting. I hunt deer for the meat.I don't harvest more than I need. As I've gotten older I struggle with thought of taking an animals life. more so since I my parents have passed. Things aren't the same for me anymore. Hunting is a paradoxical issue for me.I'm sure one day it will force me to stop altogether. I'm sorry I rambled. Just trying to explain my situation.

I mean this with all due respect, but you may want to get your testosterone levels checked.
It affects how you perceive things and how we problem solve.

 

[hammer111]

I mean this with all due respect, but you may want to get your testosterone levels checked.
It affects how you perceive things and how we problem solve.

Already have my friend. Has nothing to do with me losing my parents.

 

[hammer111]

Don't know if you have gone through this and I hope you never do.
But watching your mother and father suffer long painful sicknesses until they die while being helpless to help them or take away their pain is devastating. It may or may not have an affect on you. It did to me. My parents were in my life every day, they did so much for me. To lose them put a huge void in my life.it's thrown my world off kilter. I see, feel and think about things differently. I can't expect anyone to understand,when I don't understand it myself. I just have to find my way through life the best I can.

 

[ORCON]

Don't know if you have gone through this and I hope you never do.
But watching your mother and father suffer long painful sicknesses until they die while being helpless to help them or take away their pain is devastating. It may or may not have an affect on you. It did to me. My parents were in my life every day, they did so much for me. To lose them put a huge void in my life.it's thrown my world off kilter. I see, feel and think about things differently. I can't expect anyone to understand,when I don't understand it myself. I just have to find my way through life the best I can.

Maybe seek some professional help, nothing wrong with that but I have no idea what this has to do with hunting.

 

[hammer111]

It has affected how I view things . You watch someone suffer and die.
It makes me think differently about killing animals.

Again I can't expect you to understand. Thanks for your concern.

 

[LDHunter]

It has affected how I view things . You watch someone suffer and die.
It makes me think differently about killing animals.

Again I can't expect you to understand. Thanks for your concern.

Seriously. Get your testosterone levels and your estrogen levels checked. This sounds like a serious hormone problem. Also get therapy. Almost everyone loses their parents at some time and many of us have the same type of experience that you had and most of us get through it just fine without a big change in our view of life and hunting.

Quite being so defensive and take the hint. This is not a healthy attitude.

 

[bigngreen]

Life changes people, as I age how I view and practice hunting has changed, if we lack empathy for the animals we take there is a serious issue IMO, I HATE butchering livestock, makes me sick to my stomach to go out to the coral with a gun and do it, years ago it didn't mean anything but now it's all I can do to do it and it's a part of why I hunt so I don't have to shoot an animal in a coral, I'll do it out of obligation and once their dead it's just like anything else but man I hate it.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Probably not going to like what I'm going say, But mountain lions are just being mountain lions.
They have every right to eat what they need to survive.
We're going into their living room. So we shouldn't be too upset by how they react to us. Killing them just to kill them . I don't know, but killing them to protect yourself absolutely.
They are a part of the eco system , they are here to do a job. Imagine if they were removed from it.
Am I wrong in believing they mainly feed on the weak and old, and by doing so keeping the herds strong and healthy.

I agree with you but I don't think the last part was true. If you notice on the Strip and Kiabab in Az. Units 12A 13A 13B and 12B the lion kills are mostly big mature bucks. Same in Ut. on the Paunsagaunt Plateau next door. I have found a few lion kills in Wy. and Ca.and all were mature bucks. I know beside crushing their throats they grab/crush their jaw/snout to suffocate. Every one I've found had blood stained bone on nose area and broken bone. My theory is that big bucks don't run . They stand and fight. Or they can't run as fast as does and smaller bucks. I don't buy the weak and sick but I'm sure they are also opertunnity for them, wolves, coyotes and bobcats. I've have seen a video of a full grown Tom kill a mature 6 pt. bull elk. If I remember correctly it got on its back and had hold of it's neck. Cats almost always will attack from behind and go for neck. I've seen a bobcat/lynx kill a doe antelope . In Ca. I've seen coyotes attack small bucks twice. Once while archery hunting and once rifle. My friend shot the buck and I shot the coyote. I've seen coyotes go after a group of does twice last season here in Wy . The does go after the coyotes when they are a group. In 2017 I watched does go after a bobcat. He got up in the rocks. I was over 450 yds. Missed him but buddy watching in spot scope said he got a shower of lead and rock and jumped about 6 ft. Straight up. The does never moved. I knew a taxadermist that raised Mtn. Lions and trained big cats for movies , etc.. He told me to never turn your back on a cat. I learned it truth when playing with a half grown female that was declawed. It got bored with me and turned an walked back to it's kennel . Was on a long chain. I turned to walk away it that lion was on my back and had my neck in it's jaws in seconds. It didn't bite hard and was playing I'm sure . If wasn't it would of been more than red marks. Pete got mad at me and said what have I told you ! He locked up the lion. I went over to kennel. It was so strong it could pull my hand to the chain link with two toes. He had a huge Tom he got from Canadian Fish and Game to breed with his felines. It was too mean and would tear into them. He said he was going to kill it and do a life size mount. I have photos of that Tom I took in front of it's kennel snarling and hissing at me. Made my hair stand up . He moved to Co. in mid 80's. Never heard from him again. I still remember his name tho.
I could tell you a good story about a lion in Chugwater , Wy. but this post is way too long already . Sorry ! And sorry I got behind in posts

 

[S2r1820jc]

Good thing that cat was killed saved a lot of lives!