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Best Platform for a first long gun

okieloader

New Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Oklahoma
I know there is just a ton of info out there on this. Finding it or finding the answer to my question is the challenge. My question is not one I've seen answered directly so I will throw it here.

I want to build my first long gun and I was looking into the Remington 700 series. I have decided that I'd rather shoot a 30-06 over the 308, but could go either way. I realize the 30-06 has more velocity which spells higher energy. What I don't get is how does the barrel length play into all of this?

If I had to choose a 24" barrel in 30-06 OR a 26" barrel in 308, which would provide the best platform to build on? Please understand that my question was intended to be a conversation on caliber AND barrel, not just caliber.

Many thanks from a LRH newbie.
 
A little extra information on what I am looking at.

I am comparing these:

Remington 700 SPS Stainless, 30-06 in 24" at 10" twist

Remington 700 SPS Varmit, 308 in 26" at 12" twist
 
I have a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 25.5 inch barrel, a 6.5/284 @ 26, and just finished a 280 AI with a 26 incher. Go long to get the most out of whichever cartridge you choose. My 280AI load is 168VLD over Retumbo @3000fps. Wouldn't have gotten that out of less barrel.
 
What we know is that both rifles are .308 caliber. The difference is iin the case length which also translates into case capacity.
IMO, the shorter case length of the .308 is the only real advantage. When the 30-06 was developed, propellants as efficient as they are today and the case capacity was necessary to obtain the performance standards established for the 30 cal military round. But the longer cases require a longer action (which translates into a slower action due to bolt cycle time requirements) and add weight to the rifle.
Both rifles, IMO, are sufficiently accurate and provide enough "punch" for any hunting requirements in North America. I do believe that the .308 offers slightly better ballistics and is, if only moderately, capable of greater accuracy. But for hunting purposes and in the hands of a skilled shooter, I would offer that there isn't enough difference in accuracy potential
between the two to get excited about.
Whether the longer barrel has an advantage over the shorter barrel depends on several factors. Up to a point, the shorter barrel may not make effective use of the energy provided by the powder charge or, conversely, the longer barrel may use the energy but lose its usefulness due to increased drag over distance. So barrel length choices may depend more on what the intended load and preferred muzzle velocity numbers are. Personally, I like the 24 inch barrel as a good compromise in a hunting rifle. I do shoot some 26 inch barrel guns but in my experience (and in most reliable field test data I've read over the years) the added length adds weight without any appreciable effect in accuracy. So If I'm going to work with a 26 inch barrel it will be added length only in support of a muzzle brake.
 
First off, let me say welcome to LRH. Secondly, reloading changes everything.

Do some research but I think that an inch of barrel (+/-) averages to approximately 25fps. I guess your mileage may vary, as they say.
With that in mind, as I look at the Nosler #6, both the .30-06 and .308 as tested wore 24" barrels. The 06 fastest 150/155gn bullet was 3056, the .308; 3001. If the .308 had a 26" barrel then theoretically, it would be travelling only 5fps slower.
This may change, however, if you were using heavier bullets, as the longer bullet would start to encroach upon the .308's powder capacity.

I would rather have the "aut-6" over the .308 also. With a 28" barrel, of course. :)

JohnnyK.
 
I know there is just a ton of info out there on this. Finding it or finding the answer to my question is the challenge. My question is not one I've seen answered directly so I will throw it here.

I want to build my first long gun and I was looking into the Remington 700 series. I have decided that I'd rather shoot a 30-06 over the 308, but could go either way. I realize the 30-06 has more velocity which spells higher energy. What I don't get is how does the barrel length play into all of this?

If I had to choose a 24" barrel in 30-06 OR a 26" barrel in 308, which would provide the best platform to build on? Please understand that my question was intended to be a conversation on caliber AND barrel, not just caliber.

Many thanks from a LRH newbie.

Welcome to LRH and enjoy! Not sure when you say "I" if you meant DIY or you're having it built by a gunsmith. Anyways, the Savage action is the most DIY friendly platform.

Good luck on your project
 
What will you be using this rifle for? What are your goals?
Do you reload, or will be planning on reloading?
Any special considerations like you will be carrying this rifle a long ways and need to save weight, or are you recoil sensitive?

I think if you can answer those questions there are lots of shooters here that can help steer you into a rifle that will meet your needs. The worlds best 30.06 hunting rifle might be frustrating for you if what you really needed was a medium weight 6.5 creedmore...it's all about what your goals are.
 
What will you be using this rifle for? What are your goals?...

To answer your question the best I can, I don't know what I don't know, to be honest. What I think may be my direction is first to enter into long range shooting. I love the technical aspects of the process and equipment. As an extension of that, I can see whitetail and maybe elk in my future. I have hunted many types of smaller game, but never the size of deer or bigger. My primary desire was knock down power.

Yes, I do reload. At the present I reload 9mm, 45 and 223. I see no reason I wouldn't also reload 30-06 in the near future. Weight? I don't think that will be an issue. As far as recoil sensitivity is concerned, I don't know. I have shot some skeet and trap using a 12ga which wasn't awful, even after 100 rounds or so. That said, I've never shot a 30-06 before.

Like I have said, I am a newbie at this and I really don't know what I don't know. I have researched at length and think I know a little, but then that's why I'm here, to learn important lessons before I start dropping green backs.

So far the help has been great.
 
Ok.

There are two ways to approach the answer to your question. One way is to buy a relatively inexpensive off the shelf option, shoot long range for awhile, learn a lot, and then build the Rifle of your dreams knowing exactly why you are building what you are building.

The other way is to attempt to bat it out of the park right off the bat, and to build a rifle right from the start that you will learn and grow your skills with that will serve you well even when you develop good long range skills.

I did it the first way, others jump right in, Either method is ok. Unless you are made of money the second method demands that you know more upfront, but given how much info is out there you can definitely succeed that way if you have patience.

Instead of focusing on the cartridge you want first, instead think about it the way you would use a tool. When you go to the toolbox, you don't grab a hammer and then go find something to do with it, you instead go search for a tool that will best accomplish a specific job for you. No tool is good at everything, and they all have advantages and disadvantages, so when you choose you have to prioritize what you really NEED over all your wants, since physics demand none can fulfill every desire. A leatherman multitool is convenient and nice to have around for odd jobs but there are better pliers and screwdrivers and knives out there. You try and skin a buck with a leatherman, though it can be done successfully you'll appreciate why the right tool for the job is critical.

So, you need to be specific. If I don't know you are skinning a buck and you ask for a knife you might get recommended a leatherman tool that has been really convenient...for me that is. Or if you are cutting strings off haybales you don't need an expensive unwieldy 7 inch Bowie.

The 30.06 is known to do many things well but is not the best at anything. If you are thinking about elk, a 300 win mag or 7 mm mag is probably better, but if you are planning on shooting a thousand rounds a year then you will be replacing barrels often-so there are always compromises.

Find a couple good long range, high ballistic coefficient bullets you think will do the job you have in mind, figure out how fast they need to start out to have the energy you need at the max range you will attempt, and that will narrow down the choices for your case. If you go custom, get the best barrel you can find ( I like bartlein or krieger) and find a good smith-don't take the smith decision lightly not many guys are doing truly excellent long range rifles. The most critical part besides a straight barrel is the scope. You will never be more accurate than the scope no matter the rifle.

I started out with a lowly 308 Winchester, on a recommendation from a marine sniper I know I bought an off the shelf, production rifle. It was a Remington 5r milspec. I mounted a Leupold mark4 scope on it, bought a couple cases of Federal Gold Medal Match 175grain Sierra match king ammo, and just went and shot. Got into reloading so I could shoot more for the money, which didn't work because I just shot more period, which in the end is the point. I eventually went the custom route when I wanted more performance and had the skill to make use of it, but even though the long range performance of the 308 is not so good I learned a lot. I still shoot it, and it has dropped a lot of white tail seen though it is fairly heavy. It's wind performance is terrible, but in a way that helped me learn the wind a little better I think. A30.06 would be better, and still has great barrel life so you can shoot it a lot and is fine on elk at reasonable ranges so it may in fact be right for you.

Paying your dues with a rifle like a 308 isn't really necessary with all the excellent long range cartridges out there now but that route really did help me. I like the idea of starting out with something at a medium to lower performance level so you can learn to shoot first. I think you will shoot more that way. If you are really dedicated though you can do the same thing with a much higher performance round, but the expense goes up. Either way, you need to shoot, a lot, and the easier and more convenient and fun that is for you the more you will do it. You need a good rangefinder if you are setting up targets yourself, a good ballistic computer/app, good ammo, and a GOOD scope(don't skimp here, get one better than the rifle if you have to choose where to prioritize). So the start up costs are there but you are going to have a ball.

In the end, having said all that, don't be too hung up on the rifle, as long range is mostly about you anyway. Your focus needs to be on your skill, not matter how good or bad the rifle is. By the time you outshoot most off the shelf rifles, you will be able to answer these questions for yourself.
 
welcome to the forum!

These guys helped me out a ton as well!

I landed on the Remington 700 300win mag, i liked the available aftermarket chassis like the AI etc and the dependability of the old Remington itself.

This is for hunting as well as range usage.
 
You'll get plenty of knock down even from a .308. It can drop elk at several hundred yards without much issue.

They are pretty comparable rounds overall. As said before, with modern powders, the extra case size doesn't really matter as much. You will find plenty of powders hot enough to really launch the round downrange. I actually prefer having a lightly compressed load since I sometimes shoot at extreme angles. Empty space increases the chances of a misfire (when pointed downward, an air gap can form between the primer and powder, and the primer may not ignite the powder). At least, that's what I've been told. I've never had it happen to me personally, but it makes sense and I'll avoid finding out if I can.

If this is indeed your very first rifle, I would steer clear of the magnum cartridges (you don't bring them up in your OP, but it has been mentioned in replies). Either cartridge will give you a relatively forgiving recoil allowing you to develop good shooting habits.

I would fall back on ".308 is available and cheap" but that's not as true in recent years. There are several factory .308 loads that shoot amazingly well, but I only know that because that's what I settled on when I first started shooting. I'm sure there are quality factory loads for 30-06 as well, I'm just not familiar with them.
 
Keep it simple! Long range hunting and shooting does not happen overnight. The learning process is part of the fun ... take your time and enjoy it. There are lots of good folks here that are always willing and able to help.

Do you have someone near you that can personally show you the ropes (mentor) or you can go to for advice?

What is your budget? This will dictate how your project is going to come to reality; build by gunsmith or DIY, barrel choice, optics choice, etc ... just to name a few.

Below are some excellent articles ...

Beginners Guide To Long Range Hunting On A Budget

Long Range Hunting Rifle On A Budget

There are others that have done the same or similar but here's my budget build 2 years ago >>> http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f22/my-budget-270-ai-97745/

Good luck on your project!

Ed
 
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