Berger to introduce 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting Bullet

[Fiftydriver]

Well, my 270 Allen Magnum has been pretty much a dead stick since the old Wildcat Bullet company traded hands, a 170 gr Berger is welcome news. Hopefully they hold up as well as the other Hybrids I have shot in my Allen Magnums and it will again put the 270 AM back where it should be performance wise.

The 195 gr 7mm, well, all I have to say is its about time!!! LOL

I have shot enough 200 gr ULD RBBTs that are very slightly longer then the listed length of this bullet to know that, at least at 7mm Allen Magnum velocities, a 1-9 twist is PLENTY to keep them fully stabilized out to their supersonic limites. Now I understand that you guys are making bullets for the masses so they will need to be stabilized by lower velocity chamberings and would agree that the 1-8.5 will be needed for some smaller magnums. Still, I have not seen any problems with chamberings the size of the 7mm STW/Dakota and larger with the 200 gr bullets in 1-9 twists. Hopefully your new bullets will be the same way.

If they can handle 3400 fps, they will be simply magical in the 7mm AM in long barreled rifles as this chambering certainly has the potential to reach this level of velocity with the 195 gr bullet weight.

Sitting here on pins and needles to get some in the air and see what happens. Again, could be magical!!!!

Thanks guys for pushing the envelope. Next step, a higher BC 375 bullet!!!! Get something in the .8 or higher G1 range that will stabilize in a 1-10 twist and you guys will have another winner. That should not be to hard to do, just scale up the 300 gr 338 hybrid and tweak it a bit and your there.

 

[Iron Worker]

So what about a 26" 9" twist in a 7 WSM ? Is it too slow. I bet 2900fps would be the max I could get. But hey with this new Re#33 powder who knows ?

 

[midnightmalloy]

Well, my 270 Allen Magnum has been pretty much a dead stick since the old Wildcat Bullet company traded hands, a 170 gr Berger is welcome news. Hopefully they hold up as well as the other Hybrids I have shot in my Allen Magnums and it will again put the 270 AM back where it should be performance wise.

The 195 gr 7mm, well, all I have to say is its about time!!! LOL

I have shot enough 200 gr ULD RBBTs that are very slightly longer then the listed length of this bullet to know that, at least at 7mm Allen Magnum velocities, a 1-9 twist is PLENTY to keep them fully stabilized out to their supersonic limites. Now I understand that you guys are making bullets for the masses so they will need to be stabilized by lower velocity chamberings and would agree that the 1-8.5 will be needed for some smaller magnums. Still, I have not seen any problems with chamberings the size of the 7mm STW/Dakota and larger with the 200 gr bullets in 1-9 twists. Hopefully your new bullets will be the same way.

If they can handle 3400 fps, they will be simply magical in the 7mm AM in long barreled rifles as this chambering certainly has the potential to reach this level of velocity with the 195 gr bullet weight.

Sitting here on pins and needles to get some in the air and see what happens. Again, could be magical!!!!

Thanks guys for pushing the envelope. Next step, a higher BC 375 bullet!!!! Get something in the .8 or higher G1 range that will stabilize in a 1-10 twist and you guys will have another winner. That should not be to hard to do, just scale up the 300 gr 338 hybrid and tweak it a bit and your there.

so kirby,
if Im building a 7 LRM (7-375 Ruger) that has the same case capacity as a 7 stw and the 7 dakota then I should be fine with the 1-9" twist barrel I have? Its just a blank right now and I dont want to pay all the money to have it smithed if it wont shoot this bullet. We value your input so let me know what you think. I have estimated getting 3000fps with this bullet cartridge combo. any help is appreciated.

 

[kellyzier]

I am at the SCI show and am standing next to Bob Beck from EOL as I write this post. We just received the design from Bryan Litz for the new Berger 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting bullet.

It has an estimated averaged G1 BC of .794 and a G7 BC of .406. For those who understand such things this bullet has a G7 form factor of .850. For those who don't know what that means it means that this bullet is the slickest (in terms of velocity retention) on the planet.

Bryan has relayed that this bullet at an estimated 1.637" long will need at least a 1:8.5" twist to be stabilized. Rumors of this bullet (started by your's truly) started several people asking the question of what twist will be required. This is the reason for me starting this thread. So those who are interested in trying this bullet can start working on getting barrels. By the time you'd be able to get one we should have this bullet available.

Regards,
Eric

Hey there, any idea on the eta for the 195 berger?

kelly

 

[AZShooter]

Kelly,

On pg 6 Eric says: 7mm is planned for June. The 270 cal ultra heavy bullet is planned for April.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Midnightmalloy,

If you were shooting the old 200 gr ULD RBBT Wildcat you would be fine with a true 1-9 twist. The lengths of the Berger 195 gr and the old 200 gr are similiar so I would guestimate that you will be in good shape but until we have bullets down the barrel its hard to say for sure.

If I were you I would be very optomistic about using this new bullet in your 7mm. I would be suprised if it did not work in your barrel but until we prove it, can not say for sure.

 

[bigngreen]

I ran the numbers for my an average fall shooting day at the range I shoot and I was doing good with a 1-9 twist, elevation is 5612 ft and the stability at 1.67 using the Miller method. I shoot a lot in the 1.4 range and that stability still stays fine for me. I'm not twisting anything faster than needed to.

 

[yama49]

Well, I hope it can withstand the velocity, of my new 7am raptor staker

 

[NZ Longranger]

Having shot the 200gn Wildcats and the 189gn Caut's a lot in our big 7mm's in the Fatso family based on the necked down and improved 338 Lapua and 300 Norma brass, I think the 9" twist will be borderline if you want them to work from sealevel on up. The only 9" twist barrel that would stabilize the 200gn'ers at sealevel was a Kreiger. None of the button rifled barrels word stabilize them to 1000 yards. In a 30" Lilja, the 200's at 3300fps shot the tiniest groups ever at 600, but fell out of the sky before they got to the 1000 yard target board. The theory is that the cut rifled barrels are the true to twist rate, and the buttoned ones are always just a tad slower, and that certainly seemed to be the case from our testing. I know having spoken to Kirby a lot about this that he has no problem with them at his altitude with 9" twist Liljas, so its the thicker air at sealevel that's the problem. Now if these new Bergers are the same length as the 200gn Wildcats, then I don't believe you will reliably stabilize them out of 9" twists at sealevel either. I would suggest a 8.5" would be ideal at ours and Kirby's AM chambering's velocities, and an 8" in the WSM's etc - if you want them to work at sealevel. Even though we hunt up into many thousands of feet at least as high as you guys, we do our load developments at sealevel, and its a pain if the bullets don't make it to the target!

And to the jacket thickness, the thin jacket hunting 180gn Bergers won't work at all out of our 8" twist Broughtons at any sort of velocity. They will handle up to 3400fps out of 9" twists if you keep on top of your throats. The 8" twists worked superbly with the 200gn Wildcats at 3250 to 3300fps while Richard was making them, and also with the 189gn Caut's at 3375fps and the 175gn SMK's at 3475fps, and now we use the 180gn Hybrid exclusively in them at 3425fps. This bullet is so good at this velocity there hardly seems the need for another (did I really say that???).

Anyway, my point is that it will be a real juggling act trying to get enough twist to stabilize the 195's while not over spinning their thin jackets. Hopefully it can be done, if not, just bring them out with the target jacket as with the 180gn Hybrid and I'll be very happy!

These things are killing really well for us, here's a Red stag we just shot a couple of days ago with the under 7lbs including March scope 7mm Fatmax pushing the Hybrid at 3250fps. He was sitting down 720 yards away slightly quartering towards us with only the top 4" of his shoulder visible. As it was getting dark, we decided to take the shot. Willie hit him in front of the nearside shoulder, high through the forward upper section of chest, and the fully expanded bullet ended up the the offside shoulder blade. It had shed over half its weight smashing bone, but had certainly expanded! I wish I knew how to post up a video, as you'll see the stag's head just drops, he doesn't move at all other than a few quivers!

Anyway, looking forward to testing these new 195's - Berger, you've done it again!
Greg

 

[MuleHunter]

Eric...

When the 270 170gr bullets come out in April where can i get them? Which distributers will have them first?

I just built a 270 WSM with a 9 twist 27" 5R Benchmark that i would love to feed these.

 

[royinidaho]

Good post!

What do you mean by "if you keep on top of your throats."?

 

[NZ Longranger]

Roy,
Once a barrel has had a few rounds down it and you can feel the bore is tighter just ahead of the throat, we polish that section with an abrasive for a few short strokes, until we can feel a patch go through without extra resistance. We used to use JB's for this, but now use KG2, which is proving to be a superb, easy to use, liquid abrasive for this purpose. The fouler always seems to go in with the group as well which is a real bonus. This keeps our hot 7mm's shooting thin jackets for much longer!
Greg

 

[JimBoIHN]

I am at the SCI show and am standing next to Bob Beck from EOL as I write this post. We just received the design from Bryan Litz for the new Berger 7mm 195 gr EOL Hybrid Hunting bullet.

It has an estimated averaged G1 BC of .794 and a G7 BC of .406. For those who understand such things this bullet has a G7 form factor of .850. For those who don't know what that means it means that this bullet is the slickest (in terms of velocity retention) on the planet.

Bryan has relayed that this bullet at an estimated 1.637" long will need at least a 1:8.5" twist to be stabilized. Rumors of this bullet (started by your's truly) started several people asking the question of what twist will be required. This is the reason for me starting this thread. So those who are interested in trying this bullet can start working on getting barrels. By the time you'd be able to get one we should have this bullet available.

Regards,
Eric

Lutz Moller has bullets superior to that in .338, I think. But nothing to shoot them in. Can you discuss progressive twist rate and how much a longer barrel can make up for less twist?

 

[Bob Beck]

Mule hunter,

These 270 caliber 170 grain and 195 grain 7mm EOL line of Berger bullets will be available as soon as they are released only on our extreme store. Go to Extreme Outer Limits TV | Hosted By Bob and Chris Beck | Your Long Range Authority and click on the long range store. You will find them there. We are anticipating them to be available by May. After we get ahead of the orders we will then decide who else will be distributing them.