Berger or hammer bullets??

[Korhil78]

I have shot the 177 gr hammer bullet and it is a very nice bullet. The BC that I found to be right on for my rifle was much closer to Bryan Litz's found BC for it which is a G7 BC of .237. I shot them out to 600 yards and they proved to be very accurate.

The key to mono bullets is that you need to use a lighter weight bullet to get the speed up so high that it overcomes the light weight and lower BC at certain ranges. Im just not willing to do that. Using the heavier for caliber hammer bullets is very good for the medium ranges out to 500-600 yards and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that because most distances of animals taken is at or under that range. In my opinion, it is not a longrange bullet but I don't see them advertising it as one or suggesting that you use it as one. They are simply a good company that makes very good bullets for those that choose to use them.

In the end, I went with the 195 gr Berger but I wouldn't hesitate 1 second of loading up a 177 gr Hammer Hunter for a 500-600 yard shot. I dropped a pig with one at 515 yards and it performed as advertised. Petals came off and even exited.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I understand his process. His number was really close for us, as stated before, we had to tweak it up a little. Why is it too far for your bullets if his process works for most others?

Just seems like you wanting to them to be some high bc long range hunting bullet and they aren't. Its like putting a square peg in a round hole. From a strategic standpoint I would think it better to understate and over perform rather than over state and under perform. Unmet expectations lead to disappointment. If you are claiming the difference in BC causes you to shoot over a target at 600yards, imagine the disappointment of somebody that gets closer to Litz's number shoots under the target.

You have such a huge following, its evident that a lot of guys will use your bullet regardless of the bc and are happy with their performance. Why not just advertise Litz's BC and then be able to tell people it has the potential to perform much better.

Good luck luck with everything. I hope you get it all figured out. Small businesses are the heart of america.

I did for a while. It did not work. That simple. Shot 5 customer rifles yesterday at 900y and all were spot on with our bc within .5 moa with a 3-5 moa left wind hold which costs 10% of the wind hold in elevation.

1 average bc from muzzle to transonic does not work out. Sierra has 3 bc for there bullets for a reason.

 

[UplandFreak]

I did for a while. It did not work. That simple. Shot 5 customer rifles yesterday at 900y and all were spot on with our bc within .5 moa with a 3-5 moa left wind hold which costs 10% of the wind hold in elevation.

1 average bc from muzzle to transonic does not work out. Sierra has 3 bc for there bullets for a reason.

Can't be that simple. Your numbers didnt work for us and there are obviously several others getting closer to Litz's, so his obviously werent that far off.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Can't be that simple. Your numbers didnt work for us and there are obviously several others getting closer to Litz's, so his obviously werent that far off.

I think litz average bc is not good. I think his curve is probably pretty good. Litz one average bc from muzzle to transonic is too simple. All bullets change bc as vel changes. Most down as vel decreases and visa-versa. Some get better with lower vel, and some vary on both ends.

I have said it earlier in this thread. bc varies from rifle to rifle. This is a fact. We see it happen. Once in a while we see a rifle that tanks bc. Can't explain why.

 

[UplandFreak]

I think litz average bc is not good. I think his curve is probably pretty good. Litz one average bc from muzzle to transonic is too simple. All bullets change bc as vel changes. Most down as vel decreases and visa-versa. Some get better with lower vel, and some vary on both ends.

I have said it earlier in this thread. bc varies from rifle to rifle. This is a fact. We see it happen. Once in a while we see a rifle that tanks bc. Can't explain why.

Haha - its good to know that you can calculate BCs better than Litz. Noted. I have to get off this thread. I was trying to be cool about this nonsense. steve, go back and read this thread. Nobody is claiming to get the BC you claim and several people are claiming they are lower than advertised. Square peg in a round hole - Sounds like a recipe for success. Good luck to you! I'm out...

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Haha - its good to know that you can calculate BCs better than Litz. Noted. I have to get off this thread. I was trying to be cool about this nonsense. steve, go back and read this thread. Nobody is claiming to get the BC you claim and several people are claiming they are lower than advertised. Square peg in a round hole - Sounds like a recipe for success. Good luck to you! I'm out...

Thanks for your help. Data from your results would have been more useful. If you have some please post them.

 

[Ingwe]

Thanks for your help. Data from your results would have been more useful. If you have some please post them.

From what I've learned, Litz is an engineer and a brilliant guy as well, so what I am saying is no slight on him but as you can see by Upland's post, his followers worship him as the undisputed Guru of ballistics.

Again not saying that he isn't a brilliant guy, on the contrary....I started reading his first book and it was way over my head and went beyond what I am looking to get out of a hunting rifle.

My point is that we should open our minds to other people's findings, experiences, data, opinions, and perspectives and not limit ourselves to one man's world....there is always more to learn if you just open your mind

 

[Tree Farmer]

Thanks for your help. Data from your results would have been more useful. If you have some please post them.

This is what I'm looking for as well and why I read these posts. Spitting contests are a waste of time that adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[Rich Coyle]

This is what I'm looking for as well and why I read these posts. Spitting contests are a waste of time that adds nothing to the discussion.

Exactly. Bad mouthing is easy. It requires nothing.

 

[Backcountry sports]

This is what I'm looking for as well and why I read these posts. Spitting contests are a waste of time that adds nothing to the discussion.

I agree waist of time

 

[PAGSDIII701]

Yesterday while watching TV waiting for the president they had a live picture of the White House. In the scene there were three American flags on the building. Two were waving the same direction while one was waving the OPPOSITE direction. How would you make a wind call if you were where the cameraman was and had no flags?

I wouldn't be making wind calls there...that's a good way to get shot yourself, in addition to everyone within roughly 20 feet to your left and right (apart from those standing BEHIND)

 

[DNADave]

"In God we trust. All others must bring data." Edward Deming (a famous statistician in the stats community)

 

[Ingwe]

Exactly. Bad mouthing is easy. It requires nothing.

Ive found that when people resort to bad-mouthing, that is usually their last resort since they have nothing to back up their rhetoric

 

[UplandFreak]

Thanks for your help. Data from your results would have been more useful. If you have some please post them.

So I already shared we were using a 7.5 twist 28 nosler and we had to use .25 G7 BC and we were at 4500ft elevation. All you hammer supporters can go back and read my previous post where I already stated that. You want the serial number of the rifle? You want the date and time we did load development with your bullets? Get over yourselves. Put out an accurate BC. If you are better at calculating BCs than Litz and obviously think you are smarter it shouldn't be that hard to do.