Berger Hunting VLDs: Heart/lung vs Shoulder

[stx]

View attachment 106397 View attachment 106398 View attachment 106399 I did a little testing for the hell of it earlier this year. I took an elk femur and put two layers of cardboard and then taped the femur to water jugs. Load was 6.5 140 berger at 3100fps. Femur was shot from 40yards. As you can see it will have no problem plowing through a deers shoulder

Well done!

 

[WildRose]

View attachment 106397 View attachment 106398 View attachment 106399 I did a little testing for the hell of it earlier this year. I took an elk femur and put two layers of cardboard and then taped the femur to water jugs. Load was 6.5 140 berger at 3100fps. Femur was shot from 40yards. As you can see it will have no problem plowing through a deers shoulder

A dried out bone like that is not going to give you anything remotely resembling the same results as a live animal.

 

[deweyduck]

My avatar is the little buck I shot last year at 390 yards; my first kill with Bergers. My other 340 to 360 yard kills were with 150 Gr Sciroccos. As you can see this shot was dead center, DRT. I used the 168 VLD in my 7MM Rem mag; it went through the leg bone into the chest and did not exit the offside. The heart was jello; could not find the bullet for examination evidently because it had totally fragmented. I'm gonna stick with Bergers for awhile and hope to get one at 500 yards this year. I'm not taking pot shots either. I handload and practice a lot at 300 to 500 yards.

 

[laker]

A dried out bone like that is not going to give you anything remotely resembling the same results as a live animal.

Tough to find an elk in eastern Montana in July to try it on

 

[codyadams]

Myself and my cousin have put 140 VLD's (.260AI)or 180 VLD's (7mm rem mag) through over 20 pronghorn in the last few years, and have never had one run more than 50 yards, and out of all of those 20+, only 2 moved from the place they were standing. One was a hard quartering shot and took out the heart, the other was also hit through the heart and only ran about 15 yards from where it was hit.

So only 2 out of 20 or more pronghorn, and still counting, were not bang-flops......I would say your fine for white tails.

 

[Greenheadjed]

I've killed a lot of does and a few bucks with the 6.5mm 140 VLD Berger at a muzzle velocity of 3260 (and 3050) over the last several years. I tend to shoot deer through the shoulders as that's how my dad taught me to shoot deer. This bullet at the speeds I'm shooting has a dramatic energy transfer that can be seen and heard. I've killed deer close up and out to over 500 yards with them, and it's almost always bang flop. As someone mentioned earlier in this post, I've seen big chunks of lung blown out the far side of deer. This is the only bullet I've ever seen do this. It's one very efficient deer killer in my opinion.

 

[Wedgy]

Get one of these...

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ducts_id/80179/Remington+700+TACT+300+BLK+OUT

Load up some expanding 215-230 grain hollow points at subsonic velocities in some old Lake City 5.56 brass that you cut down and reformed to .300 BLK.

Screw on the suppressor.

Hunt inside of 100 yards and you'll be just fine.

And last, but not least... Enjoy hunting, knowing that your neighbor will never hear jack crap when you pull the trigger...So, what he doesn't know, won't hurt him...And you won't have to listen to him b!tch about you exercising your right to feed your family during a legal hunting season.

At subsonic velocities no regular bullets will expand, they will pencil through and you be chasing deer. I did the blackout thing for a few years and learned that you need prefractured bullets like the Lehigh Defense. If you really want to do damage try a 458 SOCOM shooting the 570 grain subs. I have one built on a Savage short action and the rounds fit perfectly in the .243/.308 magazine. An AR platform can't handle the pressures of the heavy subs, I think a ~350 grain is max on an AR.
https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...sion-194gr-subsonic-bullet?variant=1073832868

 

[Wedgy]

Why would anyone want to use a bullet that you need to worry if you hit the shoulder or not?

Some guys have reportedly shot bull elk at close range and have had Bergers explode and not penetrate. Picture has been posted here previously.

 

[jasent]

Some guys have reportedly shot bull elk at close range and have had Bergers explode and not penetrate. Picture has been posted here previously.

almost every post I've read like that, turns that they are using a target bullet and not the hunting bullets. Read many of those type posts. Rarely are they the hunting version and even some of the threads that claimed hunting bullets ended up they made a mistake and it was target. Not all granted but majority. Also read the same about nosler and sierra. Some times things just don't go as planned

 

[WildRose]

Tough to find an elk in eastern Montana in July to try it on

The butcher shops are open in July, pork and beef bones work great and will give you a much more realistic appraisal.

Down here we have so many wild hogs I can practice year round on any size live target I want.

 

[Almondgrower]

As stated the burgers are designed to fragment due to the cup and core design . A giant exit wound is not ideal for hunting in my opinion , that tells you the bullet did not hold up. I like to count on the unintended impact worst case scenario such as a shoulder or large bone structure Incase the animal jumps or something crazy or a branch you could not see 1/2 way between you and your target .In that case , a bullet doing that will not penitrate like a premium bonded bullet will in a worst case scenario. I prefer to shoot a bonded Bullet for hunting such as a AccuBond . The ideal exit wound is usually about the size of a quarter . I always try to shoot for heart and lungs for a definite kill . Most often the animal will run a ways before exspirering due to survival instinct but once heart and lungs are taken out , it's like holding your breath . You could go a ways while holding your breath , once Air in the bloodstream runs out or blood flow to the brain stops , the animal passes out and expires . Often times people talk about knock down power and (it dropped in its tracks) ...... that is a result of a spine shot devistating the central nervous system more often then not however pure shock can drop them too but it's not as common . Dont get me wrong , done is done , a shoulder shot can be risky , but it has its place , try shot placement a touch higher for a spinal impact thus dropping it rite there and shutting down heart and lungs rite then too . The VLD's will work for sure either way and you have a larger trauma area while the bullet fragments too increasing the chance of spinal damage . You can also tune a load with a premium bonded bullet more then likely to your rifle also. Your gun may like jump since you say it likes VLD's but the Nosler AccuBond LR really likes jump also , just for fun give them a shot too after hunting season and try to tune that load to your gun , gone forever are the worries of shot placement and if the bullet will stay intact. Best of luck !

 

[cheechin]

Depends totally on the situation, animal angle, weather conditions, range etc. Personally I like a neck shot on anything out to 150m if lying prone, confidently take a neck shot out to 100m free standing, headshot within 50m, but will generally opt for a shoulder shot on anything past those sort of ranges. The majority of the deer Im shooting these days, on average about 5-6 a month, Im shooting with a 223, so more careful bullet placement is needed. I never aim to hit "heart and lungs, they're "behind" the shoulder. I hold on the shoulder in an effort to smash it, and everything behind the shoulder blade. An animal can't run far with no front wheels, and often the shock of a shoulder shot will drop the animal on the spot. If shooting down on an animal aim to send the bullet through the spine, between the shoulders. Pole axes them.

 

[Doug Herold]

I am switching to Berger 140 hunting VLDs this year since that's what my new rifle likes most.

I have heard this bullet tends to fragment as opposed to expand. If that's the case, should I look for a heart/lung shot as opposed to a shoulder shot?

My property is not particularly large so I try to drop them DRT. Shoulder shots have been effective at this but I'm not sure how well a fragmenting bullet will worj for that shot.

Any with experience with VLDs through the shoulder? White tail is target species. Muzzle velocity with 6.5 140 VLD is 2750.

I have shot numerous deer with what you are using. On one hunt in Alberta, I shot a really large mule deer at 570 yds. The 140 gr VLD broke the near shoulder as well as the shoulder on the far side and came to rest just inside the hide. I weighed the bullet. It retained @ 60 % of it's original 140 grains. The MV was 2800fps. Do not hesitate to shoot the shoulder with a Berger.

 

[Ingwe]

I have shot numerous deer with what you are using. On one hunt in Alberta, I shot a really large mule deer at 570 yds. The 140 gr VLD broke the near shoulder as well as the shoulder on the far side and came to rest just inside the hide. I weighed the bullet. It retained @ 60 % of it's original 140 grains. The MV was 2800fps. Do not hesitate to shoot the shoulder with a Berger.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at ANY angle with a Berger but the same can't be said for an Elk, Kudu, Zebra, etc.

Burger's have a cult-like following and I do "get it" because they are fantastic bullets but there is no way that they are going to hold together like a partition, a bonded bullet like an accubond, or a copper bellet like a Barnes X bullet....let's not fool ourselves

Use the appropriate bullet for the game you're after.