Berger close range impact

dana bodnar

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Elk are big animals and are very strong and can take many hits from small bullets. I have shot many over the years and have read many articles on how you can use your 6.5. creed or 270 win and I don't agree with that. 300 win-mag or 7-mm in my opinion should be the smallest caliber used on Elk. For under 300 yards I use a 375-H&H and long range a Savage 300 win-mag with a 212-g ELD-X.
 

FIGJAM

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Elk are big animals and are very strong and can take many hits from small bullets. I have shot many over the years and have read many articles on how you can use your 6.5. creed or 270 win and I don't agree with that. 300 win-mag or 7-mm in my opinion should be the smallest caliber used on Elk. For under 300 yards I use a 375-H&H and long range a Savage 300 win-mag with a 212-g ELD-X.

As soon as you lump the 270 with the 6.5 things get interesting. Would you include the 280 in with the 270? The difference in bullet diameter between a 7mm and 270 are .007. My buddy thinks his 7mm RM is far superior to my 270 wsm, yet he shoots 140gr nosler BTs out of his and I shoot 145gr eldx out of my wsm. SMH...

My experience with smaller calibers on elk has been different, so I tend to disagree in general. My 270 wsm with the 145gr ELDX has been awesome on elk. I took the one in my avatar at 430 and was impressed with the performance.
 

NEMTHunter

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As soon as you lump the 270 with the 6.5 things get interesting. Would you include the 280 in with the 270? The difference in bullet diameter between a 7mm and 270 are .007. My buddy thinks his 7mm RM is far superior to my 270 wsm, yet he shoots 140gr nosler BTs out of his and I shoot 145gr eldx out of my wsm. SMH...

My experience with smaller calibers on elk has been different, so I tend to disagree in general. My 270 wsm with the 145gr ELDX has been awesome on elk. I took the one in my avatar at 430 and was impressed with the performance.

I have always got a kick out of that argument. MY 7mm is better then a .270. LOL!! The .270 is closer to a .280 the the 7mm is to boot. The .270 =.277 the 7mm=.284.

They are so close its not even funny. a 7mm is not much of a jump over the .270 the biggest difference is the bullet weight the 7mm seems to get pushed more in that end of things and the next is powder volume. They are so close.

Like you said there is only .007 between the two. Not to mention most guys that claim the 7mm is better then the .270 by a long shot say it not far behind the .308. LOL .284 vs .308 leaves you with a .024 difference.

Where the bigger calibers shine is for LR shooting.

I will say this. I do like a pass through. I do not shoot for the shoulder. And a golf ball sized hole between the ribs is not going to waste meat. BUT it will help bleed the animal out quicker. and it also means more blood tissue is damaged so bleed outs are quicker.

There is no down side to the bullet passing all the way through as long as it has expanded where needed. There are more benefits to it then no passing through.
 

SilverbulletMAG

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My buddy thinks his 7mm RM is far superior to my 270 wsm, yet he shoots 140gr nosler BTs out of his and I shoot 145gr eldx out of my wsm. SMH...
Your buddy needs to look at other bullets for elk hunting with his 7 mag. A 140 ballistic tip would be about the last bullet recommended. That bullet has a claimed SD of .266 but it's still not the right tool for the job. Sectional Density (SD) seems to be overlooked or misunderstood.
A good read that helps put things into perspective - https://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm (not directed at you...throwing it out there for general consumption for anyone curious)
 

FIGJAM

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Your buddy needs to look at other bullets for elk hunting with his 7 mag. A 140 ballistic tip would be about the last bullet recommended. That bullet has a claimed SD of .266 but it's still not the right tool for the job. Sectional Density (SD) seems to be overlooked or misunderstood.
A good read that helps put things into perspective - https://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm (not directed at you...throwing it out there for general consumption for anyone curious)

You are preaching to the choir. I even gave him a bunch of barnes TTSX I loaded up and decided I wasn’t into for my own 7mm RM. It blew his mind that I would take my 270wsm and leave the 7mm in the safe. Some people are too ignorant to ever see the truth. Its the same load he uses on deer. To each their own - we don’t hunt together often anymore.
 

FIGJAM

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I have always got a kick out of that argument. MY 7mm is better then a .270. LOL!! The .270 is closer to a .280 the the 7mm is to boot. The .270 =.277 the 7mm=.284.

They are so close its not even funny. a 7mm is not much of a jump over the .270 the biggest difference is the bullet weight the 7mm seems to get pushed more in that end of things and the next is powder volume. They are so close.

Like you said there is only .007 between the two. Not to mention most guys that claim the 7mm is better then the .270 by a long shot say it not far behind the .308. LOL .284 vs .308 leaves you with

I get a kick out of it too. I realize the 7mm’s shine with heavy bullets, but the 270’s can hold their own if you use heavy for caliber bullets.
 

PApa Black

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I have been shooting Berger bullets for
Some time now . I have never had one fail me ,although most of my shots have been in the 300 to 650 yard range . That changed yesterday on a Whitetail meat hunt when I shot a doe at 40 yards . Shooting a 270 wsm
Berger 130 gr Hunter Classic
Muzzle velocity of 3250 my ballistic program will not give me 40 yard results but at 75 it’s still moving at 3102 FPS. I have heard horrible stories
Of the Berger bullets blowing up on impact with no pass through. I know this is just a whitetail deer and not a Moose but come on 3102 at 40 yards .
I’ve had bullets thrown from lesser velocity and destroyed everything.
Here are the results of the Berger Bullet I’m sticking with them .
I've been shooting 168 Hunting VLDs in my 308 for years and never a problem with expansion; but a friend was shooting 155 Hunting VLDs in a Browning bolt gun and had 3 pass throughs. Looked like the deer was shot with a target arrow, I contacted Berger and they said: check the tips for damage ( closure) from recoil in the magazine and that's what we found. These were hand loads and about .005" from touching the mag wall. I shortened the COAL by .030" and the problem was solved. I also shot those bullets in my Savage, which has a much wider mag and no problem. Berger also asked that I send back to 3 boxes of 155gr VLDs and they replaced them at o charge.
 

NEMTHunter

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The laws of physics dictate that for a total transfer of (kinetic) energy from the projectile-to-the-target, there will be no exit wound...

Help me out here please. So what you are saying is if you get a pass through you either had to much energy for the given animal OR your bullet did not expand enough to put all the energy into the animal?
 

19elkhunter51

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I purchased 500 70 grain VLDs from our junior rifle club in .22 caliber. I have killed two animals with this load. A whitetail doe at 56 yards and a coyote at 35 yards. The shot on the doe was a high neck shot that performed as I thought it would. In and a large out. The coyote quartering away, entry wound with no exit.
Over the years I personally believed that the Berger line would be on my list for punching paper or ringing steel. I did not think they were ever designed as a hunting bullet. I still don't have enough experience with the Berger's to offer an educated opinion and will stick with my Barnes TTSX and Sierra Gameking.
 

DavidleeCole

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I have had this happen to many times with whitetail and bergers from my 300 weatherby mag. No pass through good placement for a thick jacket bullet but terrible for a berger. Accubond and PowerPoint have always gave me good results. First picture is a doe at 519 yards great results. Second a buck at 80 yards chest shot he went 150 yards down into a creek watched him run there was no blood trail not a spot. If he did not run right by me it would have been some work to find him cause i would have to follow his tracks not blood. No pass through but terminal on the inside. I like pass through shots and energy dumps into the target.
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DavidleeCole

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Bonneville Arkansas
Keep berger's to soft tissue and lite bone in my opinion. Great bullets in flight would be awesome in a tactical situation where you wanted limited penetration and low chance of collateral damage. But heavy bone and I don't like the performance.
 

19Wyoming

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Utah
Interesting opinions guys. Just started shooting Bergers recently in a 6.5 x 300 Weatherby. They are accurate!
 
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