Berger bullets blocked hollow point hole

J E Custom

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The closed tips come in all different flavors and degrees of "closed". I had one .338 300gr OTM out of a box of 250 with the tip so solidly pinched shut with copper that neither of the two Kevin Cram tools opened up the tip. Next I took a small drill bit in a battery powered drill and tried to chase the countersunk tip open. Believe it or not, the drill bit exited the side of the bullet, rather than chase down into the empty cavity. NEXT, I took a grinder to the bullet tip until I ground away all the solid copper at the nose of the bullet, and finally reached the open cavity. By that time, the bullet was looking more like a wadcutter. I shot that bullet while breaking in a new Bartlein barrel.


My experience was with the SMKs, and none of them had solid tips so the Meplat trimmer worked
without removing to much of the jacket to harm it.

If the bullets have the hollow point tip closed all the way and near solid I would send them back for a refund and would not use them for anything but targets.

I suspect a quality control issue.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM
 

phorwath

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Re: Berger bullets blocked hollow point hole

I hear ya, but here's the story...

There is no internal dimension manufacturing specification for the Berger bullets that ensures the jacket tips will have a hole in them. The exterior of the bullets are the only surface required to meet a manufacturing specification. Remember, these bullets started life as, and evolved from, target bullets. They've only evolved into hunting bullets in the past 8-10 years. Doesn't make much difference if a target bullet has a closed tip or not.

So if a bullet tip is closed solid with jacket material, as long as the exterior surface of the bullet is the correct shape, the bullet passes the factory QA/QC inspection. Simply the way it is. I know one member that tried to send a butt-load of bullets back for replacement, and the answer was a very polite explanation, and a polite no.

Most of the Berger bullets I've handled, by far and away, do have an open tip. Somewhere between 1 and 7% have had the jacket tips pinched closed during manufacture in the bullet forming dies. Maybe an average of 2-3% with closed tips, all in all.
 

J E Custom

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Re: Berger bullets blocked hollow point hole

I hear ya, but here's the story...

There is no internal dimension manufacturing specification for the Berger bullets that ensures the jacket tips will have a hole in them. The exterior of the bullets are the only surface required to meet a manufacturing specification. Remember, these bullets started life as, and evolved from, target bullets. They've only evolved into hunting bullets in the past 8-10 years. Doesn't make much difference if a target bullet has a closed tip or not.

So if a bullet tip is closed solid with jacket material, as long as the exterior surface of the bullet is the correct shape, the bullet passes the factory QA/QC inspection. Simply the way it is. I know one member that tried to send a butt-load of bullets back for replacement, and the answer was a very polite explanation, and a polite no.

Most of the Berger bullets I've handled, by far and away, do have an open tip. Somewhere between 1 and 7% have had the jacket tips pinched closed during manufacture in the bullet forming dies. Maybe an average of 2-3% with closed tips, all in all.


Good Information, A little disappointing but I guess with todays market everything is produced to
save time and cost.

I spent some time at Sierra's bullet plant years ago and saw many quality control checks during
the jacket making process and then during the core process to assure materials were the same hardness for consistency during manufacturing.

There were many weight checks on the components also before they were assembled. with all of these quality control checks/steps there were still visual inspections buy trained people.

Even with all of these inspections there were still slight differences but not of the kind you are describing now.

On the Sierra match Kings using the Meplat trimmer was a good way to uniform the BC and enhance the performance for hunting consistency. I have not bought any Match Kings since
all the shortages started, so I don't know if there quality has fallen off, But there does seem to be a trend to less quality in all components due to demands.

Having been In quality control for many years, I do know that consistency requires quality control
and without it there is very little quality and consistency.

I guess we will have to check every single component from now own if we want consistence and accuracy and take nothing for granted.

J E CUSTOM
 

jimbires

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JE customs , I had no idea what was in the hollow points , but polishing media sure makes sense . polishing would probably be the final step at berger .

Paul , it sure could have been your pictures I'm thinking of . I seem to remember the Kevin Cram tools being mentioned in the thread with these pics .

I've also got a couple PM's on this . it seems like everyone agrees to watch the holes for being plugged .


what I've ran into is a bunch that I don't want to hunt with because of the plugged holes . I wasn't watching for this when I developed the load using the 300 gr OTM's . then I started to check them for hunting ammo and I'd guess I'm seeing about 30% having plugged holes . so I thought these OTM's are not yet advertised as a hunting bullet , I need to buy the hunting bullets . so I get a load with these hunting bullets . then I start to check them for open holes and I'm seeing a bunch blocked up . I haven't paid attention to how many , but it is more than a few . both style bullets shoot great for me , but I just need to fix the hole problem for more confidence when hunting . I want to try and avoid a non - expanding bullet . I also shoot the 7mm 140 hunting , but I'm not seeing as many of these with plugged holes . but I bought the 140's a few years back , so maybe a little different process was being used .


thanks to all you guys for sharing your knowledge and information with me , I really appreciate it . happy hunting fellas . Jim
 

Wedgy

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I think the figures I read were something like a 2% gain in BC over a distorted meplat so I think it's more like 1% over a "good" bullet. Normal sorting would weed these out and identify the ones with plugged tips. In my case they were full of HBN from tumbling. I simply find the size jewelers bit that fits the average open hollow point and spin the bit by hand to clean out the tip. I don't think I would notice a 1 or 2% gain in any of my hunting rifles, perhaps a heavy bench gun. If it passes sorting and the tip is open it's good enough for me. Those trimmers are sexy though ! Lots of good info in this thread.
 

rcoody

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I think the figures I read were something like a 2% gain in BC over a distorted meplat so I think it's more like 1% over a "good" bullet. Normal sorting would weed these out and identify the ones with plugged tips. In my case they were full of HBN from tumbling. I simply find the size jewelers bit that fits the average open hollow point and spin the bit by hand to clean out the tip. I don't think I would notice a 1 or 2% gain in any of my hunting rifles, perhaps a heavy bench gun. If it passes sorting and the tip is open it's good enough for me. Those trimmers are sexy though ! Lots of good info in this thread.

the reason I do it has nothing to do with improving the BC. I just want to ensure proper expansion on game.

Sinclair meplate trimmer is only 50 bucks. Cheap insurance for me.

If I were really trying to improve long range shooting performance I would trim meplates and use the whidden pointing die.
 

J E Custom

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the reason I do it has nothing to do with improving the BC. I just want to ensure proper expansion on game.

Sinclair meplate trimmer is only 50 bucks. Cheap insurance for me.

If I were really trying to improve long range shooting performance I would trim meplates and use the whidden pointing die.


+1

That was my reasoning also. It did help the consistency on game and until I found a hunting bullet that had very good accuracy I stayed with the trimmed Match kings.

Also shot placement is very/more important if using a target/match bullet than a bullet that is designed to go through bone.

J E CUSTOM
 
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